We all need a little humor every now and then.

[dapoes]

personally would not relate that to a food item, but I sort of think I see what you are implying. :blink: is that referring to making a simple yogurt or the ingredients or the actual yogurt cultures? anyway...

re-read what I wrote and then t-h-i-n-k about it!

You win! Cultured Yogurt!!!!

 

[dapoes]

I have actually heard that and read that online from some DL people, but I tend to feel that is probably just some personal opinions and ideas that would not necessarily be the case overall..

Actually companies that have non union labor force that are in a highly unionized industry, know that they could be unionized very easily, if they slip up and treat their workforce poorly. That threat alone can keep a company in check. Make sense?

because I certainly could not embrace the idea of using the 'threat of unionizing' in order to get something someone may want. because that is not truly working together for greater good of all.

if that is what they are actually doing to get raises and improvements.. to me, that is worse than actually just going in and negotiating in good faith with each other..but of course that is just my opinion.

You getting to caught up on that word "threat"

for the most part I would hope that regardless of the final outcome..management and employees work together going forward focusing on customers and communities while supporting the employees (and ultimately each other).. its time for that to be more of the norm.. but well,

that is what I hope..

I hope so too.

 

[Dignity]

Actually companies that have non union labor force that are in a highly unionized industry, know that they could be unionized very easily, if they slip up and treat their workforce poorly. That threat alone can keep a company in check. Make sense?

yes that does make sense, I can actually see what you are trying to convey..but my point again is..the "culture" should be present and stand alone.. regardless of what an individual group decide regarding the issue of representation. because if they are only being 'nice' to prevent something, then they really arent 'nice' at all to begin with...does that make sense?

You getting to caught up on that word "threat"

not at all..as I mentioned I feel some may feel that way, not necessarily the group as a whole, what it really implied was simply..

recognizing that may be their interpretation (some people's view) in order to gain improvements.

I hope so too.

I really believe when everything is resolved, we all will move forward.

but that process (the unresolved issues...) needs to be addressed.. 'yesterday' IMO

 

[Kev3188]

:blink: You still aren't getting it. Heres a hint...the threat of a union isnt coming from non union workers.

If that was true, why have there been so many drives previously? Clearly, there is a significant portion of the DL populace that realizes the benefits representation would bring.

Now we get to the IAM and AFA. WHOA their little doggie, you can't mess with our "culture". So does "culture" mean one thing in one department and something completly different in another?

Apparently, it does. The "hired help" isn't allowed to have a voice. :down:

Culture of being non union and liking it perhaps?

I got news for you: the "culture" at DL is now very different from April '08. Your new in-laws bring a nvery different mind set to the table. Neither of us asked for it, but here we are.

what I am basically saying, the culture should not change either way,

if it truly exist..

It won't. The "culture" or "family" arguments are merely a page out of the union busting playbook.

I would say no. its all the same for everyone.

I personally feel unionization or non-unionization is a separate issue all-together aside from the "culture". (or it should be)

Absolutely. It is possible to be both proud of your company and be pro-union.

Actually companies that have non union labor force that are in a highly unionized industry, know that they could be unionized very easily, if they slip up and treat their workforce poorly. That threat alone can keep a company in check. Make sense?

... And yet they still treat their employees poorly... Just ask those laid off in FLL or EWR...

 

[dapoes]

yes that does make sense, I can actually see what you are trying to convey..but my point again is..the "culture" should be present and stand alone.. regardless of what an individual group decide regarding the issue of representation. because if they are only being 'nice' to prevent something, then they really arent 'nice' at all to begin with...does that make sense?

I see what you mean, but I dont think its active thought that is present in the companies mindset. Its more of a business philosophy if you will. Over the years it carries thru the workforce, treat people like you would want to be treated, culture, etc.

not at all..as I mentioned I feel some may feel that way, not necessarily the group as a whole, what it really implied was simply..

recognizing that may be their interpretation (some people's view) in order to gain improvements.


I really believe when everything is resolved, we all will move forward.

but that process (the unresolved issues...) needs to be addressed.. 'yesterday' IMO

Yup

 

[Dignity]

It won't. The "culture" or "family" arguments are merely a page out of the union busting playbook.

to be quite honest, I dont know if it is actually present the "culture' or not.. because I have not worked there in the past! all I can go on is what has been observed and my overall impression that I have regardless..

but!

on the flip side, enough people before.. may feel they are treated fairly because they continue stay on the same course..

I dont know if I am ever going to buy into this 'family' idea because it is a corporation..a business...and a family supports all decisions not just picks and chooses and then turns around and goes on a 'campaign'...ya know

but I can be be loyal to a company as I was at NW..and try my best to do a great job.

 

[dapoes]

If that was true, why have there been so many drives previously? Clearly, there is a significant portion of the DL populace that realizes the benefits representation would bring.

Ok im not sure about that actually, but if you say so.

I got news for you: the "culture" at DL is now very different from April '08. Your new in-laws bring a nvery different mind set to the table. Neither of us asked for it, but here we are.

Yes I know Kevin, this is a tired line...BTW you do know who the majority of management is now right? In fact if memory serves me. IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN

It won't. The "culture" or "family" arguments are merely a page out of the union busting playbook.

Still bitter about this merger I see. Come on Kev, Time to move on.

 

[Dignity]

I see what you mean, but I dont think its active thought that is present in the companies mindset. Its more of a business philosophy if you will. Over the years it carries thru the workforce, treat people like you would want to be treated, culture, etc.

let me put it like this, I believe, you believe you are treated fairly..(and hope that will be the case going forward for all)

 

[Airlinelifer]

I see what you mean, but I dont think its active thought that is present in the companies mindset. Its more of a business philosophy if you will. Over the years it carries thru the workforce, treat people like you would want to be treated, culture, etc.


Yup

"The threat of a union is better than not having a union." Thats the same line Delta's FLL Station Manager told us when we first met him. He also said that "Delta does not layoff". He actually said that, to a group that averages 20 years, we kind of looked at each other and just shook our heads, mumbling "do you believe this ........., he lost all credibility when he came out with that line of crap.

 

[Dignity]

Yup

I just do not think it is necessary to "educate" the group for the third time.

we need to simply determine what the majority wishes by having an election.

 

[Kev3188]

Ok im not sure about that actually, but if you say so.

What are you not sure about? You should know better than I how many drives there have been at DL over the last few years. You should also know that it takes ~1/3 of any work group to sign a card in order to call for an election. All I'm pointing out is that if it's all "ice cream and cupcakes" like you claim, then those people would never sign a card in the first place.

Yes I know Kevin, this is a tired line...BTW you do know who the majority of management is now right? In fact if memory serves me. IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN

Ah yes, the out of hand dismissal; another page out of the playbook. Excellent. Your handlers have taught you well. 🙄

Actually, I wasn't talking about management at all, but rather of the employees.

Still bitter about this merger I see. Come on Kev, Time to move on.

Still making baseless assumptions I see.

Questioning the status quo is not being bitter. On the contrary; it shows someone cares. Maybe you're content to be a sheep. I am not.

 

[dapoes]

What are you not sure about? You should know better than I how many drives there have been at DL over the last few years. You should also know that it takes ~1/3 of any work group to sign a card in order to call for an election. All I'm pointing out is that if it's all "ice cream and cupcakes" like you claim, then those people would never sign a card in the first place.

Pff...I have never claimed everything is "ice cream and cupcakes". Thats your assertion.

Ah yes, the out of hand dismissal; another page out of the playbook. Excellent. Your handlers have taught you well. 🙄

Thanks for backing up my assertion

Actually, I wasn't talking about management at all, but rather of the employees.

And you are the elected one to speak for all NW employees? :blink:

Still making baseless assumptions I see.

Questioning the status quo is not being bitter. On the contrary; it shows someone cares. Maybe you're content to be a sheep. I am not.

Is it not true that no matter what you will still not be ok with this merger. Even if everything was, to use your phrase "ice cream and cupcakes"?

 

[Kev3188]

Pff...I have never claimed everything is "ice cream and cupcakes". Thats your assertion.

No, you claim that there is no need for a union at DL. My "assertion" is that sevral times over the last few years, no less than 1/3 of your colleagues felt different.

I'll ask again: If everything is so great, why would they ever sign a card in the first place?

And you are the elected one to speak for all NW employees?

No more than you are for DL employees.

Is it not true that no matter what you will still not be ok with this merger. Even if everything was, to use your phrase "ice cream and cupcakes"?

Incorrect.

P.S. Feel free to lose your condescending attitude anytime. You should know by now that it doesn't get you very far...

 

[dapoes]

No, you claim that there is no need for a union at DL. My "assertion" is that sevral times over the last few years, no less than 1/3 of your colleagues felt different.

I'll ask again: If everything is so great, why would they ever sign a card in the first place?

Your assertion, is to say the least misguided. That will never change.

No more than you are for DL employees.

I never stated i speak for them. You did.

P.S. Feel free to lose your condescending attitude anytime. You should know by now that it doesn't get you very far...

Feel free to do the same Kev.

 

[WorldTraveler]

To be fair, just because DL or any other company's employees at various times have signed interest cards calling for an election doesn't necessarily mean they are ready to have a union. There clearly are DL people that will swear to their death that a union is not needed but there are far more that are willing to use the ever-present threat of being able to unionize as a tool to ensure that DL doesn't take advantage of its non-union position. DL employees are not blindly lying down and accepting everything that management wants to give them but they do maintain a healthy dialogue that ensures management knows what matters. As with everything in life there are are choices that have to be made; it happens in development of a CBA too.

The same healthy tension that exists between DL and many of its employees also exists between B6 and its pilots and between CO and several of its employee groups. Checks and balances are good... the threat of unionization is a valid threat that management has to be aware of but it doesn't mean that employees can only get what they want through a union-mgmt relationship.

However, recognize that one of DL employees' greatest fears in recent years has been how a merger would be handled, esp. from the employee integration standpoint. US did more to instill fear in DL people as their mgmt and employees talked about laying off thousands of employees and shrinking the combined airline, leaving DL employees at the whims of a hostile mgmt team and its unions. It's also noteworthy that US has still not resolved its union issues from the US-HP merger 3 or more years ago.

As the pieces fall more and more into place, it is more and more apparent that there really are no plans for either DL or NW employees to take a hit in order to make the merger work. There is an orderly process that is occuring to integrate the airlines and which will allow both groups to equally share in the spoils.