We all need a little humor every now and then.

[Dignity]

However, recognize that one of DL employees' greatest fears in recent years has been how a merger would be handled, esp. from the employee integration standpoint. US did more to instill fear in DL people as their mgmt and employees talked about laying off thousands of employees and shrinking the combined airline, leaving DL employees at the whims of a hostile mgmt team and its unions. It's also noteworthy that US has still not resolved its union issues from the US-HP merger 3 or more years ago.

what I find interesting in those comments, is simply it appears some always focus on one situation, while either not addressing or possibly ignoring or maybe are not even aware... there have been successful management/employees relations with unionization present at other airlines. SW and Alaska comes to mind.

while I do not know all the details at US, it seems a major issue is seniority.

to me, if there were to be this 'comparison' or how it might play out and not to elevate these 'fears'..I would tend to feel it would look similar to SW...(working together)

why would anyone at DL feel their management would go the route and cause division? I just do not think that would be the case at all..either way, staying the course or with a union. because,

revisiting the past.. pulling failed and poor labor relations ideas off the shelf, would not only be unnecessary going forward, it would be disastrous to another good name, it would be something that could not be fixed the second time or very difficult to do so.

I want to believe some get that and wont pull those stunts, they dont work and it causes nothing but problems.


I honestly feel, and of course this is just a personal opinion, that however it all ends up, management will work with employees, continuing the relatively smooth integration process that is ongoing.. in order to preserve, maintain and build upon.. the idea of culture (positive aspects) going forward.

 

[WorldTraveler]

It is focused on one situation because you cut and pasted part of my reply. I made the point that CO and B6 are examples of successful companies that have employees that have chosen not to unionize.

DL, after all, was able to become the world's largest airline in no small measure because it has worked with its employees. Remember that ALPA had an agreement with DL before the merger actually closed and the final seniority issues were resolved in months, not years.

Yes, it is possible to have good labor relations with unions present but it is also possible to have good labor relations without a union.

Understandably, some NW employees are skeptical but I firmly believe they will understand that DL' culture has demonstrated that infighting with labor accomplishes nothing but harm to all involved. The industry is filled with examples of that, including alot of NW's history. But when both parties work together, everyone benefits.

 

[Dignity]

It is focused on one situation because you cut and pasted part of my reply.

actually it was simply a general comment, not necessary directed to anyone in particular, as I had stated ..
"it appears some always focus on one situation" some do feel that way and yes some glance over and focus on one situation in particular.

I made the point that CO and B6 are examples of successful companies that have employees that have chosen not to unionize.

I saw that, that is why I included SW and Alaska as well.. (as an example of having good relations either way, with or without a union)

DL, after all, was able to become the world's largest airline in no small measure because it has worked with its employees.

actually they became the worlds largest because they merged with NW.

Remember that ALPA had an agreement with DL before the merger actually closed and the final seniority issues were resolved in months, not years.

and that was a good thing, very good thing.

Yes, it is possible to have good labor relations with unions present but it is also possible to have good labor relations without a union.

that is dependant on Management and in this situation hopefully all will work together, I believe that will be the case.

Understandably, some NW employees are skeptical but I firmly believe they will understand that DL' culture has demonstrated that infighting with labor accomplishes nothing but harm to all involved. The industry is filled with examples of that, including alot of NW's history. But when both parties work together, everyone benefits.

NW seems to get a bad rap and do you know why that may be, a lot of labor issues were played out in the media, causing some negative perceptions that were not always the case.

of course there were issues in the past, but overall NW is a company with great people, technology, facilities and professionals, in that regard a suitable and attractive merger partner.

 

[Kev3188]

To be fair, just because DL or any other company's employees at various times have signed interest cards calling for an election doesn't necessarily mean they are ready to have a union. There clearly are DL people that will swear to their death that a union is not needed but there are far more that are willing to use the ever-present threat of being able to unionize as a tool to ensure that DL doesn't take advantage of its non-union position.

While that's true that signing a card doesn't necessarily equate to a "yes" vote, that wasn't what I was driving at. I wasn't even going that far. My contention is that the simple fact that ~33% of the workgroup takes the time and energy to sign one shows a significant portion of the group is not satisfied with the status quo.

DL employees are not blindly lying down and accepting everything that management wants to give them but they do maintain a healthy dialogue that ensures management knows what matters. As with everything in life there are are choices that have to be made; it happens in development of a CBA too.

They may not be blindly lying down, but the cold truth is that at the end of the day, they really have no say. EIT teams, the DBC and other councils are nice for the "feel good" factor, but are wholly ineffectual.

The same healthy tension that exists between DL and many of its employees also exists between B6 and its pilots and between CO and several of its employee groups. Checks and balances are good... the threat of unionization is a valid threat that management has to be aware of but it doesn't mean that employees can only get what they want through a union-mgmt relationship.

I'm with you here, too (though to be fair, CO is in sort of the same boat as DL when it comes to "constant" election drives).

But let me state that being represented does not hamper the relationship you may have with management. I get along just fine with my station manager, but it's not him who is setting the pay scale, benefits, etc.

However, recognize that one of DL employees' greatest fears in recent years has been how a merger would be handled, esp. from the employee integration standpoint. US did more to instill fear in DL people as their mgmt and employees talked about laying off thousands of employees and shrinking the combined airline, leaving DL employees at the whims of a hostile mgmt team and its unions. It's also noteworthy that US has still not resolved its union issues from the US-HP merger 3 or more years ago.

I have read quite a bit about how the specter of a US takeover sort of galvanized the DL workforce. I read an article where Grinstein credited with giving the DL workforce the "giddyap" (sic) it needed to be successful after BK.

As the pieces fall more and more into place, it is more and more apparent that there really are no plans for either DL or NW employees to take a hit in order to make the merger work. There is an orderly process that is occuring to integrate the airlines and which will allow both groups to equally share in the spoils.

We'll see. Time will tell, I suppose. The CLT at DL has to realize that there is a massive mistrust of Anderson and a few others that they need to overcome for this thing to really take off. Only action (and the follow through of same) can accomplish that. Flowery memos and promises in the dark won't cut it.

 

[dapoes]

massive mistrust of Anderson and a few others that they need to overcome for this thing to really take off.

Thats just your opinion.

 

[Airlinelifer]

Thats just your opinion.

And your opinion of Anderson and the rest of the CLT is?

 

[Kev3188]

Thats just your opinion.

Of course it's my opinion... It also happens to be one that's shared by most at NW (certainly in Ground Ops, anyway)...

 

[dapoes]

Of course it's my opinion... It also happens to be one that's shared by most at NW (certainly in Ground Ops, anyway)...

Oh thats right, because you are the designated speaker for "most at NW".

 

[Kev3188]

Tell you what; next time (if) you actually fly a trip, ask around.

 

[dapoes]

Tell you what; next time (if) you actually fly a trip, ask around.

Why? I told you I beleive you. 🙄

 

[HottootrotNyc]

With ALPA, DL and NW pilots had no interference at all. With the Dispatchers, DL has had over 4 decades of working with the Dispatchers union. No fuss, no mess, just let us (DL mgmnt) know when you guys decide on your union representitive.

Now we get to the IAM and AFA. WHOA their little doggie, you can't mess with our "culture". So does "culture" mean one thing in one department and something completly different in another?

Yes, it does, it means they have been able to rape the employees of one department and not another. Do you know what Delta will lose if and when the F/A's finally vote in the union? I can see the papers now, "Sad day at Delta", our F/A's went againt our "culture" and decided to vote in AFA.

 

[HottootrotNyc]

Tell you what; next time (if) you actually fly a trip, ask around.

Thank you Kev, I needed a good laugh! But I will tell you, don't hold your breath waiting for that trip to be flown!

 

[Dignity]

Do you know what Delta will lose if and when the F/A's finally vote in the union? I can see the papers now, "Sad day at Delta", our F/A's went againt our "culture" and decided to vote in AFA.

I do not think that would happen at all...the ' 🙁 boo-hoo 🙁 ' comment all up in the newspaper!

surely they know..merging with a highly unionized carrier, that another employee group just might become..unionized..

(this idea must have been given some consideration and a real possibility it will end like that..)

so, why in the world would anyone in Management come up with a...well.. sorta not so nice comment (bordering on pity party) they are displeased the majority of a workgroup decided to opt for representation?

I hope... they are smarter than that!

do you know what would happen.. if for some silly reason they just decided to go ahead and do that? it would plant the seed of labor problems from the get-go, showing and validating a union was necessary to begin with because they simply do not respect the decisions of the majority.

that! would be the first impression by a lot of people...and it would not be a very smart thing or comment to make after the fact..

more than likely what will happen is a congratulatory comment either way...sort of like..

"we are pleased the majority of our employees decided to continue keeping the open door for direct relationship and look forward.. welcoming our new colleagues as we join together and work toward becoming the worlds premier carrier"

or!

"we are pleased the majority of our employees have ultimately decided the direction we will take.. looking forward to sitting down and discussing meaningful and productive ideas bringing our two work forces together as we begin the process of negotiations"

know what Im sayin?

 

[2BlacknBlue]

Great read.

"FLL IAM said...
I had the opportunity to talk to some of the Delta rampers before they were laid-off from FLL. It was sad to see the anxiety they had to endure. They told me that the worst part about it is trying to explain to family and friends where they were going to end up. I asked them if they knew where they were headed, but it was not up to them. Many had the seniority to stay in the state but were not afforded that chance.

You build something over the years that is very important, that my friends is seniority. You knew it when you started, filling out the application, its a 24/7 operation, your happy to get on board. You work the hardest shifts, with days off in the middle of the week, worked holidays away from your family.

You talk to the senior employees, you try to guesstimate how long it would take you to work an early morning shift, or get part of the weekends. Now you end up with a shift you desire, days off or a certain area, and then BAM! you get hit with a layoff notice. This is where a LEGALLY BINDING CONTRACT can help in the worst of times.

As a Fulltime employee of Northwest Airlines and a member of the IAM, if I were to recieve a layoff/displacement notice I have 5 days to fill out a "Notice of Exercise" If you were to get displaced from an area in a hub, you have one day to "Exercise your Seniority" to another area in that hub). After looking at the COMPANY FURNISHED SENIORITY LISTS (broken down to the three hubs DTW, MSP, MEM and spokes in the five regions, North, South, East, Midwest, and West). I would research from my home PC or a company PC the different stations I can hold with my seniority. I could then talk it over with my family and decide:
a. Take the layoff and hit the streets.
b. Fill out the "Notice of Exercise of Seniority" and commute. Filling out a recall notice to get back to my home station or,
c. Fill out the "Notice of Exercise of Seniority" and move my family to a new city.
With options b or c, I will be "bumping the junior Full-time employee in the station. (If exercising to another point or location, you may not select work schedule. You will bump the most junior [in this case FT] employee). Delta rampers, ask any NW ramper to show you our seniority lists, show you the forms we fill out. Gain some control over where you and your family will live, don't leave it up to someone in a cublcle making that decision for you.

If this is going to be the "Premier Global Airline" then it should treat it's employees as the "Premier Global Airline Employees."

Get it on paper,in a contract in black and white, don't bet your career on promises.

VOTE IAM

10:25 PM"

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=36...921558405514080

 

[1Conehead]

VOTE IAM

No thanks,I've had too many bad experiences with that group.