We have a bingo

[delldude]

This is exaclty where the difference lies: You - and many others - believe that a "bunch of religious zealots" sidelined his campaign goals.

I - and many others - believe that Bush's Iraq war was his goal prior to being sworn in and he just used the "bunch of religious zealots" as pretext for the War in Iraq. In my opinion, Bush's so-called campaign goals would have been "sidetracked" regardless of 9/11 because he was going to start a war in Iraq regardless. Thus, I think he was already willing to "dump" his campaign promises in order to rehash his daddy's war.

Rummy probably was the impetus from Daddy.......Saddam needed to go the way of the Edsel....Weapons manufacturers and military planners need to test their stuff from time to time you know......and young men die in the process.You need to establish democracy in the ME you know...to provide stability to an area long unstable.Looks like it just may be finally working.

Theres more to it than either of us will ever know too.....

I hope you don't believe those little 'secret' meetings between Dastardly Dick and GW and big oil were about Iraqi oil.......look at your gas pump...thats what the meeting was all about.

Vengeance is a dish best served cold...ask Saddam how it was.

 

[Garfield1966]

He hasn't had much of a chance as his campaign goals were sidelined by a bunch of

religious zealots a mere eight months after he took office causing him to divert from plans

of rebuilding a neglected and decimated military machine to going onto a war footing.

That short instance of time altered a lot of his administration plans and goals forever I bet.

You neglected to see that didn't you.

Had Afghanistan received the attention it deserved, the out come would have been quite different. As Lilly pointed out, 9/11 had nothing to do with the W's preoccupation of Iraq. He went in there for money and to avenge his daddy. He went in with no plan and now we all pay the price.

W decimated the military along with this country all on his own. OBL had nothing to do with W's incompetence as POTUS.

 

[delldude]

Had Afghanistan received the attention it deserved, the out come would have been quite different. As Lilly pointed out, 9/11 had nothing to do with the W's preoccupation of Iraq. He went in there for money and to avenge his daddy. He went in with no plan and now we all pay the price.

W decimated the military along with this country all on his own. OBL had nothing to do with W's incompetence as POTUS.

I doubt Iraq was in the game plan...I think it was an afterthought and an opportunity.What money did we go in for? I'll agree the planning left something to be desired.....but dude....looks like the price we're paying is a successful campaign...so successful,Pelosi and Harry Reid don't have much to make issue out of anymore.
Like I said before,W never really had much a chance to rebuild what Clinton had torn apart militarily.

Afghanistan isn't the defining moment.....it never was the military op that Iraq was.....still isn't today.
As far as the country being decimated......politically,its been that way for quite some time.You still have hanging chad issues.....and many others like you.

 

[tech2101]

looks like the price we're paying is a successful campaign...

What planet are you on? If you define success by destabilizing the entire middle east for a toy war, then you are correct.

 

[delldude]

What planet are you on? If you define success by destabilizing the entire middle east for a toy war, then you are correct.

Duh....tell me when it was 'stabilized'?

 

[tech2101]

Duh....tell me when it was 'stabilized'?

Good point. How about more destabilized... :unsure:

 

[delldude]

I think the idea was of an Arab democratic state in the ME that would get those people out of the centuries old tradition of killing each other and trying to move their populace out of the stone age and into the modern world.Lead by example so to speak.
Some other countries have leaned that way only to aggravate the fundamentalists which are what stabilized democracies would get away from if successful.
Will it work?
Time will tell....

 

[Garfield1966]

I doubt Iraq was in the game plan...I think it was an afterthought and an opportunity.What money did we go in for? I'll agree the planning left something to be desired.....but dude....looks like the price we're paying is a successful campaign...so successful,Pelosi and Harry Reid don't have much to make issue out of anymore.
Like I said before,W never really had much a chance to rebuild what Clinton had torn apart militarily.

Afghanistan isn't the defining moment.....it never was the military op that Iraq was.....still isn't today.
As far as the country being decimated......politically,its been that way for quite some time.You still have hanging chad issues.....and many others like you.

I disagree. I sear that i read an article a way bay that quoted W as talking about Iraq before he was even in the White House. As for the money. Let's see. Oil companies - making a killing on the unstable market (yes demand is part of the price increase but not the reason for a 300% increase). Any contractor in Iraq is making a killing. (the US government is paying Blackwater 3 times what we are paying OUR OWN SOLDIERS). Iraq is costing nearly $200 million a day. That money is being paid to someone and it sure as hell ain't the tax payer footing the bill.

Lets see. The military was so screwed up by Clinton yet W and Rumsfeld still went to war with it. Who is the idiot there? Why would you start a conflict that the military is not equipped to handle? W had plenty of time to build up what ever he wanted to. He screwed up by listening to people who told him what he wanted to hear with no regard for the consequences.

I have no freaking idea what a 'defining ' moment is. Afghanistan was the only conflict that needed fighting. Had W kept his beady little eyes on the ball OBL might have even been captured. Instead, W was greedy, power hungry religious zealot and figured he go finish what daddy could not. He wiped our military out. He started a conflict that will probably never end. BTW, when Sadir decides set his boys loose again, you can kiss your little surge good bye. Iraq is holding on by a C hair (as my wife likes to say).

As Cheney said in that interview, invading Iraq is a stupid idea that would never work. THOSE ARE HIS WORDS. HE KNEW IT WOULD FAIL. And yet he did nothing to stop it.

W said in 2000 that he would never use the military for nation building like Clinton does because that is not what the military is for. THOSE WERE HIS WORDS. HE KNEW IT WAS WRONG. And yet he went ahead and did exactly what he said he would not do.

It's one thing if someone else said it was wrong and he did it any way. It's another thing entirely when THEY SAY NOT TO DO IT AND DO IT ANYWAY KNOWING FULL WELL IT IS WRONG.

Either they are both liars or they are both incompetent to lead the country.... or they are both.

W set this country back decades. He has placed this country in grave risk. He has divided this country as never before. He is with out a doubt, the worst POTUS this country has ever seen.

 

[UAL_TECH]

I disagree. I sear that i read an article a way bay that quoted W as talking about Iraq before he was even in the White House. As for the money. Let's see. Oil companies - making a killing on the unstable market (yes demand is part of the price increase but not the reason for a 300% increase). Any contractor in Iraq is making a killing. (the US government is paying Blackwater 3 times what we are paying OUR OWN SOLDIERS). Iraq is costing nearly $200 million a day. That money is being paid to someone and it sure as hell ain't the tax payer footing the bill.

Lets see. The military was so screwed up by Clinton yet W and Rumsfeld still went to war with it. Who is the idiot there? Why would you start a conflict that the military is not equipped to handle? W had plenty of time to build up what ever he wanted to. He screwed up by listening to people who told him what he wanted to hear with no regard for the consequences.

I have no freaking idea what a 'defining ' moment is. Afghanistan was the only conflict that needed fighting. Had W kept his beady little eyes on the ball OBL might have even been captured. Instead, W was greedy, power hungry religious zealot and figured he go finish what daddy could not. He wiped our military out. He started a conflict that will probably never end. BTW, when Sadir decides set his boys loose again, you can kiss your little surge good bye. Iraq is holding on by a C hair (as my wife likes to say).

As Cheney said in that interview, invading Iraq is a stupid idea that would never work. THOSE ARE HIS WORDS. HE KNEW IT WOULD FAIL. And yet he did nothing to stop it.

W said in 2000 that he would never use the military for nation building like Clinton does because that is not what the military is for. THOSE WERE HIS WORDS. HE KNEW IT WAS WRONG. And yet he went ahead and did exactly what he said he would not do.

It's one thing if someone else said it was wrong and he did it any way. It's another thing entirely when THEY SAY NOT TO DO IT AND DO IT ANYWAY KNOWING FULL WELL IT IS WRONG.

Either they are both liars or they are both incompetent to lead the country.... or they are both.

W set this country back decades. He has placed this country in grave risk. He has divided this country as never before. He is with out a doubt, the worst POTUS this country has ever seen.

Garf,


Take Care,

B) UT

 

[delldude]

I disagree. I sear that i read an article a way bay that quoted W as talking about Iraq before he was even in the White House. As for the money. Let's see. Oil companies - making a killing on the unstable market (yes demand is part of the price increase but not the reason for a 300% increase). Any contractor in Iraq is making a killing. (the US government is paying Blackwater 3 times what we are paying OUR OWN SOLDIERS). Iraq is costing nearly $200 million a day. That money is being paid to someone and it sure as hell ain't the tax payer footing the bill.

Like I said,I don't think big oil is making much ,if anything off Iraqi oil.So there goes the Cheney/Bush secret meeting...... BTW...our soldiers don't get much at all in the way of pay so I guess BW isn't making THAT much then?(Your own words)

Lets see. The military was so screwed up by Clinton yet W and Rumsfeld still went to war with it. Who is the idiot there? Why would you start a conflict that the military is not equipped to handle? W had plenty of time to build up what ever he wanted to. He screwed up by listening to people who told him what he wanted to hear with no regard for the consequences.

They tell me you go to war with what you have at the time...both intel and weaponry.

I have no freaking idea what a 'defining ' moment is. Afghanistan was the only conflict that needed fighting. Had W kept his beady little eyes on the ball OBL might have even been captured. Instead, W was greedy, power hungry religious zealot and figured he go finish what daddy could not. He wiped our military out. He started a conflict that will probably never end. BTW, when Sadir decides set his boys loose again, you can kiss your little surge good bye. Iraq is holding on by a C hair (as my wife likes to say).

Dude....you're drinking way too much Pelosi Koolaid.....BTW is that a Red C Hair?Sadir and his merry bunch are done.Take it to the bank.

As Cheney said in that interview, invading Iraq is a stupid idea that would never work. THOSE ARE HIS WORDS. HE KNEW IT WOULD FAIL. And yet he did nothing to stop it.

Last I checked...Cheney wasn't in charge...I believe GW makes the final decisions.

W said in 2000 that he would never use the military for nation building like Clinton does because that is not what the military is for. THOSE WERE HIS WORDS. HE KNEW IT WAS WRONG. And yet he went ahead and did exactly what he said he would not do.

It's one thing if someone else said it was wrong and he did it any way. It's another thing entirely when THEY SAY NOT TO DO IT AND DO IT ANYWAY KNOWING FULL WELL IT IS WRONG.

There you have it....the first politician to lie and it had to be a damned Republican president.Damn...

W set this country back decades. He has placed this country in grave risk. He has divided this country as never before. He is with out a doubt, the worst POTUS this country has ever seen.

No more or less than anyone before him....You are suffering from Post Traumatic Florida Vote Syndrome...get over it.
Wait until the Big 'O' and the Dem congress crap all over our rights and launches us into the inferno....its going to be fun to watch.

 

[MMB]

W set this country back decades. He has placed this country in grave risk. He has divided this country as never before. He is with out a doubt, the worst POTUS this country has ever seen.

The worst?

Lincoln:
Took the country from "of the people, by the people, for the people" with the power in the hands of the people and the states to precisely what the founders did not want, a ruling central government.

F.D.R.:
The father of the welfare state and all the negatives that grew out of it:
Political class warfare, ridiculous taxes, astronomical budget deficits, destruction of the family and high illegitimacy rates among those of lower economic groups, illiteracy, crime, …

J.F.K.:
Only elected because he wasn’t Eisenhower.
Seen by the rest of the world as week, he emboldened the U.S.S.R. to build the Berlin Wall and plant medium range missiles a stone’s throw from the Florida coast. He brought us closer to a nuclear trade with Russia than anyone wants to think about.

Johnson:
Viet Nam. Talk about a botched war! We’re going to fight it with every body we can get over there, but only on OUR side of the fence. Don’t want to go fight on the enemy’s side where it might actually be effective!

Nixon:
Destroyed what trust in government we had left.

Ford:
Became vice president and then president without being elected to either.
Had two assassination attempts against him that were made by women.

Carter:
The most incompetent president we’d NEVER want to have. The only reason he got elected was because he followed Nixon, had a political record as exciting as wet burlap, and ran the campaigned slogan: “I Will Never Lie.â€
What Nixon did for our country, Carter did in the eyes of the rest of the world. He’s spent the years since his presidency repeating to the rest of the world, including the radical Islamists, that the U.S. is one F****d up place!
Did I mention 23% interest rates?

Clinton #1:
The last person in the country the D.N.C. wanted, but when Bush senior got himself fired, they had to run with him.
“Just a moment Mr. Ambassador, but I have to step out in the hall and let Monica here relieve a little pressure for me. We’ll continue our talks when I get back.â€
“That depends on what the definition of IS is.â€

Bush #2:
The reason Republicans will be staying home on Election Day. That is, unless the D.N.C. decides to run Billery #2.



I’d say it’s a close race, but my vote for all time worst goes to F.D.R.

 

[Garfield1966]

They tell me you go to war with what you have at the time...both intel and weaponry.

If you have no choice I agree. W had a choice and he made the wrong one.

Last I checked...Cheney wasn't in charge...I believe GW makes the final decisions.

OK, that's funny.

What does soldiers salary have to do with W and Cheneys friends making money hand over fist?

Aside from the demand increase, every time someone sneezes in the ME, the oil futures go up. When 9/11 hit, oil was at $26 a barrel, it is now at over $100 and no one is making a profit? Really? Did you just turn in to Local and loose your mind?

Bush lied (big surprise) but what Cheney did was different. He did not say he would/would not do something. He gave an explanation as to why Bush I did not go into Iraq and told what would happen. His prediction came true when he and his puppet decided to go ahead and do it any way.

 

[local 12 proud]

Its a mental illness garf, there is help for ya! 😛

 

[delldude]

If you have no choice I agree. W had a choice and he made the wrong one.





OK, that's funny.

What does soldiers salary have to do with W and Cheneys friends making money hand over fist?

You brought it up...DUH

Aside from the demand increase, every time someone sneezes in the ME, the oil futures go up. When 9/11 hit, oil was at $26 a barrel, it is now at over $100 and no one is making a profit? Really? Did you just turn in to Local and loose your mind?

Oil prices go up for lots of reasons other than GW

Bush lied (big surprise) but what Cheney did was different. He did not say he would/would not do something. He gave an explanation as to why Bush I did not go into Iraq and told what would happen. His prediction came true when he and his puppet decided to go ahead and do it any way.

Cheney said it back in 1991 to Daddy Bush during first ME war,did you know that?

 

[Gilding the Lily]

The worst?

. . . .

I’d say it’s a close race, but my vote for all time worst goes to F.D.R.

How did you leave James Buchanan off your list?

He may be the worst; he was neither a "state's rights proponent" or a "central ruling government" proponent... he was just there. Couple that with tearing down the seperation of powers with his behind-the-scenes influence on the supreme court, and I say that you -- at very least -- have a contender here.