What concession would you like to see from AA management?

[737823]

Since much of the discussion in contract negotiations has been extending or seeking deeper concessions from 2003, I thought it would be interesting to gather opinion regarding concessions from management. Given the operating environment dynamics-cut throat competition in many markets, high fuel prices, minimal pricing power it would naiive to believe new (and likely more expensive) management would not seek similar concessions.

Would Arpey reducing his base pay to $0 until AA reaches sustained profitability like Jeff Smisek did be meaningful?
Would eliminating the PSP program go a long way?
Would you like to see management take greater ownership of their poor decisions in the past 5-10 years?

What would be most meaningful?

Josh

 

[Buck]

Since much of the discussion in contract negotiations has been extending or seeking deeper concessions from 2003, I thought it would be interesting to gather opinion regarding concessions from management. Given the operating environment dynamics-cut throat competition in many markets, high fuel prices, minimal pricing power it would naive to believe new (and likely more expensive) management would not seek similar concessions.

Would Arpey reducing his base pay to $0 until AA reaches sustained profitability like Jeff Smisek did be meaningful?
Would eliminating the PSP program go a long way?
Would you like to see management take greater ownership of their poor decisions in the past 5-10 years?

What would be most meaningful?

Josh

They could do something to raise moral.

 

[ULM148]

Since much of the discussion in contract negotiations has been extending or seeking deeper concessions from 2003, I thought it would be interesting to gather opinion regarding concessions from management. Given the operating environment dynamics-cut throat competition in many markets, high fuel prices, minimal pricing power it would naiive to believe new (and likely more expensive) management would not seek similar concessions.

Would Arpey reducing his base pay to $0 until AA reaches sustained profitability like Jeff Smisek did be meaningful?
Would eliminating the PSP program go a long way?
Would you like to see management take greater ownership of their poor decisions in the past 5-10 years?

What would be most meaningful?

Josh

 

[ULM148]

For starters, this question is ridiculous. Why would you even ask about executive concession's? The question imply's that we should keep all the idiot's that drove the company into the ground! Arpey has not led any part of this company since his appointment. Even with massive cash infusion from his union and non union work groups, the "executive's" have squandered their resources. There is no "What concession's would you like to see..." The question you should have asked is " will Crandall return to fix this mess ?". This company cannot and will not survive with the current lack of leadership.

 

[bravozulu@afw]

Our rank and file membership has been DECIMATED by management!

Why not DEMAND a DECIMATION of Decadent, Deceitful, and Delusional Demagogs/ Despots in management? How many new V.P.'s are there now? More than in 2001?, 2003? How many of the DESPOTS have taken BONE-USes? In the mid 1990's, over 600 mid-managers and assistants were given their PINK SLIPS!! Why not CULL OUT the WORTHLESS DEADWOOD from level 7 and above? A MINIMUM of 10% would sound good to the rank and file!! Also CULL OUT all the STUPORvisors who have been transferred for infractions ( Entering False Data into an E6 Logbook, making FALSE OFFICIAL STATEMENTS to us and others, singling out individuals ( in the rank & file) for UN-Deserved Administrative Actions, et al)?

Why Not have all management sign statements of "DO UNTO OTHERS, AS YOU WOULD HAVE THEM DO UNTO YOU" ?

Arbitrarily REMOVE a WEEK of their VACATION, over half of their MONDAY HOLIDAYS, and the ability to BANK HOURS for COMP TIME!! Let them wear an ALBATROSS that WE have had to BEAR!! For EIGHT YEARS!!

AND THEY WANT $200 MILLION MORE in CONCESSIONS!!

 

[fltguymk]

I would like to see a management headcount and their salaries. Then I would like to see them compared to United and Delta. Let's see who has the most productive and cost efficient management team from HQ to local base management.

 

[eolesen]

I would like to see a management headcount and their salaries. Then I would like to see them compared to United and Delta. Let's see who has the most productive and cost efficient management team from HQ to local base management.

Finally, a reasonable option other than "off with their heads"

 

[Frank Szabo]

Finally, a reasonable option other than "off with their heads"

I can't imagine what "civilized" response would be appropriate considering the trouble these SOBs caused since 2003 within the company and their "most valued asset".

Arpey isn't the only problem - there are many more fresh from MBA school with his manner of thought in line. The resignation of all (still working) at AMR who would have benefitted from the management retirement slush fund of 2003, a total replacement of the BOD and not less than half of "manager" levels and above sent to the street would be a nice beginning.

The company packed on the "pounds" with BS layers of management ever since Crandall left, leaving screwing the workers as the only option to financing these unnecessary layers. However, any meaningful management concession would be akin to asking the US Congress to follow the Constitution; ie, voting to cut their own throats - we all know that won't happen without intervention.

 

[Hopeful]

I would like to see a management headcount and their salaries. Then I would like to see them compared to United and Delta. Let's see who has the most productive and cost efficient management team from HQ to local base management.

Unfortunately, the executive elite class do not have a "productivity" factor. Productivity in the business world applies to labor...the workers....hourly workers......
If one wanted to create a productivity gauge for the executive class, I would say some might refer to the number of heads under them as compared to their counterparts at other airlines.
One example I could see is eliminating the Level 8 director.....There is no reason why the level 6 manager cannot report directly to the VP. In maintenance, what you have is a director micro managing her/his managers.

 

[737823]

I would like to see a management headcount and their salaries. Then I would like to see them compared to United and Delta. Let's see who has the most productive and cost efficient management team from HQ to local base management.

Fair point. I seem to recall DL announcing this spring that they were making headcount reductions in their management staff. I imagine some at HQ have jobs through family, friends, business partners, etc rather than their credentials.

Unfortunately, the executive elite class do not have a "productivity" factor. Productivity in the business world applies to labor...the workers....hourly workers......
If one wanted to create a productivity gauge for the executive class, I would say some might refer to the number of heads under them as compared to their counterparts at other airlines.
One example I could see is eliminating the Level 8 director.....There is no reason why the level 6 manager cannot report directly to the VP. In maintenance, what you have is a director micro managing her/his managers.

Sorry but you really have no idea what you are talking about. Many professionals are salaried and often work 10-12+ hour days. All the recent reports from the BLS indicate that workplace productivity is at all time highs right now. Many companies have engaged in headcount reductions, combined positions, business units, etc. People outside the union world have been forced to take on additional responsibilities often couple with a paycut or stagnant pay. In fear of being included in the next reduction or having an unfavorable performance review, many are forced to accept the added duties. I often work 10 hour days particularly with end of quarter responsibilities. When traveling I often have my computer or paperwork that occupies my time while waiting at airports or onboard the plane.

Josh

 

[eolesen]

Josh's 10 hour day was the norm when I was at AMR, not just the end-of-quarter. My normal workday was from 0830-1830, not including whatever time was spent reading and responding to email from home. I'd say 55 hours a week was pretty much the average for my entire time at HDQ between 1992 and 2006.

Before laptops and email, it was considered normal in Field Services/Ground Operations for analysts to spend half-day or more in the office on Saturday or Sunday mornings. Coming into the office pretty much went away when laptops and remote access for email started in the late 1990's, but that only made it easier to crank out more work from home.... I suspect it's worse with everyone carrying a Blackberry now.

If one wanted to create a productivity gauge for the executive class, I would say some might refer to the number of heads under them as compared to their counterparts at other airlines.
One example I could see is eliminating the Level 8 director.....There is no reason why the level 6 manager cannot report directly to the VP. In maintenance, what you have is a director micro managing her/his managers.

Already done, Hopeful. "Span of control" (direct and indirect heads reporting to an individual) has been used as a budgeting threshold at AMR.

Back in my HDQ days, a L5 typically had 5-8 direct L2/3/4 reporting to them; a L6 had a similar number of L3/4/5 reporting to them. L8's usually had 5 L5/6's reporting to them (some L5s report to L8's instead of a L6), resulting in around 30 direct and indirect management heads, not including the non-management heads the L3/4/5s may have been supervising.

The ratio is not used the same across the board, and really shouldn't be. A number of L5/6's in staff jobs are considered "working managers" and have project loads independent of what their directs are doing, and a lower ratio by design.

At the airport, ratios are higher, since workload is a little more cookie-cutter than in a staff job. L3's had 15-25 agents at any given time. In Flight and Flight Service being self-directed most of the time had ratios of around 1:60-90. For Fleet Service or M&E, I'd expect something around 1:30-45 for a L3 in Fleet and a L5 in M&E.

I'll politely disagree in the idea of eliminating the L8 across the board. Maybe in parts of Maintenance you could get raising the ratios and eliminating a few L8's, but proposing that a VP have 25 direct reports isn't going to go very far.

 

[Buck]

Finally, a reasonable option other than "off with their heads"

Or we could chop off their Left Hand........

 

[Jacobin777]

Would Arpey reducing his base pay to $0 until AA reaches sustained profitability like Jeff Smisek did be meaningful?

I like that idea. Cisco's John Chambers did that (he wound up getting a lot of stock options though).

They could do something to raise moral.

Agree there!

Even with massive cash infusion from his union and non union work groups,

I know what you mean, but pay cut and cash infusion are different.

I would like to see a management headcount and their salaries. Then I would like to see them compared to United and Delta. Let's see who has the most productive and cost efficient management team from HQ to local base management.

I agree! This could have been a great bargaining tool!

Unfortunately, the executive elite class do not have a "productivity" factor. Productivity in the business world applies to labor...the workers....hourly workers......
If one wanted to create a productivity gauge for the executive class, I would say some might refer to the number of heads under them as compared to their counterparts at other airlines.
One example I could see is eliminating the Level 8 director.....There is no reason why the level 6 manager cannot report directly to the VP. In maintenance, what you have is a director micro managing her/his managers.

CEO's do get fired. Hewlett Packard's recent firing of its CEO is one example.

There are some excellent ideas here (especially the comparisons to other carriers). Rather than just complaining about "we've taken a pay cut and you management have gotten bonuses, I think this could have been one direction the various unions take. A quid pro quo. Now maybe this was indeed discussed, but from what I've read/heard, this approach wasn't taken.

 

[FWAAA]

For starters, this question is ridiculous. Why would you even ask about executive concession's? The question imply's that we should keep all the idiot's that drove the company into the ground! Arpey has not led any part of this company since his appointment. Even with massive cash infusion from his union and non union work groups, the "executive's" have squandered their resources. There is no "What concession's would you like to see..." The question you should have asked is " will Crandall return to fix this mess ?". This company cannot and will not survive with the current lack of leadership.

The unionized workforce gave about $13.5 billion so far since the concessions were imposed.

Since the concessions were imposed, AMR has spent about $50 billion on fuel, nearly $30 bllion more than it would have at 2002 prices.

That's been the biggest problem: Fuel that has been two and a half times more expensive, on average, than when the concessions were imposed.

Your concessions barely made a dent in the price rise for fuel.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I would like to see a management headcount and their salaries. Then I would like to see them compared to United and Delta. Let's see who has the most productive and cost efficient management team from HQ to local base management.

funny though... there is a group of people on this forum who get real nervous when AA is compared to its peers DL and UA, despite the fact that the analyst community consistently recognizes that those are AA's closest peers.
.
The fuel argument gets a little old... every other airline has managed to adapt to the environment that exists.
AA's problem continues to be that it cannot obtain the fare levels that other carriers get.

Indicative of this fall in its revenue production is its decline in the Business Travel Network survey:

"Following a second-place finish in 2010, American Airlines' scores this year declined in every category, with the largest decreases related to buyers' perceptions of the value of its network and partnerships, quality of communications and availability of distribution channels. "

The airline that many once thought had the best access to the best business markets in the world now is perceived as not having a network that delivers sufficient value.
An incredible assessment....
and it isn't suprising that AA's employees continue to be blamed as the source of AA's problems even though revenue production is the sole responsibility of management and admitting that management has failed will never occur in AA's proud culture.


....

BTW, please note the difference between the following two words which are frequently confused on this forum


mor·al
   [mawr-uhl, mor-] Show IPA

adjective
1. of, pertaining to, or concerned with the principles or rules of right conduct or the distinction between right and wrong; ethical: moral attitudes.

2. expressing or conveying truths or counsel as to right conduct, as a speaker or a literary work; moralizing: a moral novel.

3. founded on the fundamental principles of right conduct rather than on legalities, enactment, or custom: moral obligations.

4. capable of conforming to the rules of right conduct: a moral being.

5. conforming to the rules of right conduct ( opposed to immoral): a moral man.



mo·rale
   [muh-ral] Show IPA

noun
emotional or mental condition with respect to cheerfulness, confidence, zeal, etc., especially in the face of opposition, hardship, etc.: the morale of the troops.