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What will the AA majority demand the US employees concede?

johnny kat

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If a merger occurs what will be most important to the majority of AA union members? I ask because I believe the current situation with the US pilots and f/as will not be important and will take a backseat to the interests of the larger AA unions. The US employees have shown themselves to be vulnerable and divided. IMO, the US employees should have signed labor agreements in place with current US management before any merger proceeds, but I do not believe that is going to be the case and in the event of a merger, the US employee interests will take a backseat to the larger AA unions.

What will be the dividing issues? How long will it be before the US f/as and pilots receive pay raises if they don't have agreements in place before the merger?
 
I think that when it comes time to vote on the union (for the fa's) the AFA will probably win. I havent talked to too many fs'a about it but the few that I have talked to say they will vote AFA. I doubt any of the ex TWA fa's will vote for the APFA and most junior AA fa's will prob vote AFA. The APFA is pushing for the merger, but then they will probably get voted out of existence. Will be very interesting either way.
 
I don't think it is an issue between employee groups. This will be the deciding factor in the answer to most of your questions...what course of action requires the least outlay of money by the company. If Parker or his successor can delay paying the US pilots and f/as at AA scale by keeping them squabbling and in separate unions from AA employees, I see no reason why he should push for a single pilots' union or f/as' union.
 
I think that when it comes time to vote on the union (for the fa's) the AFA will probably win. I havent talked to too many fs'a about it but the few that I have talked to say they will vote AFA. I doubt any of the ex TWA fa's will vote for the APFA and most junior AA fa's will prob vote AFA. The APFA is pushing for the merger, but then they will probably get voted out of existence. Will be very interesting either way.

There's a near-zero chance that the AA flight attendants vote to dissolve their union in favor of the impotent AFA. There aren't enough ex-TWA FAs to make a difference. AA has more than 16,000 FAs compared to the 6,500 at US. APFA out of existence? You're more likely to win the powerball this weekend.

Consider the economics. For the past 10 years, AA's FAs have made more money than US FAs thanks to the multiple concessions in two bankruptcies. Despite merging with HP in 2005, and some profitable years since the merger, the AFA has been unable to increase the pay and benefits of the US FAs. AA's FAs, on the other hand, just went thru Ch11 and got pay rate increases to go along with industry-aligning work rules and medical cost increases. Granted, the AFA is not as bad as the pretend union created by some of the East pilots, but the AFA has proven itself ineffective at pay and benefits. The failed TA at US would have provided raises of about 25% to 35% on average, but even with those raises, the US FAs would have been paid less than APFA-represented FAs.

I don't think it is an issue between employee groups. This will be the deciding factor in the answer to most of your questions...what course of action requires the least outlay of money by the company. If Parker or his successor can delay paying the US pilots and f/as at AA scale by keeping them squabbling and in separate unions from AA employees, I see no reason why he should push for a single pilots' union or f/as' union.

Federal labor law requires that the represented employees vote on which union will represent them following a merger - Parker's desires are irrelevant. Management has nothing to do with the timing of that representation vote.

As for higher pay for the US employees, we saw in 1999 that the AA pilots have a short fuse when it comes to two payscales. As soon as the merged carrier is deemed to be a single carrier (if not before), the pilots and FAs at US will have to receive pay and benefit parity with their AA colleagues. If not, I see a repeat of February, 1999 when the pilots tried to burn the place down following the Reno Air purchase.
 
Federal Law doesnt require employees to vote on which union they will join after a merger.

If a union is more than 35% of the total workforce they will get the certification unless the other union gets 35% of cards signed by the combined workforce to force an election.

There was no election at US for the IAM or TWU for fleet service nor was there one for Mechanic and Related between the IAM and the IBT.
 
If a merger occurs what will be most important to the majority of AA union members?

Last December, the CWA filed a request with the National Mediation Board to hold an election for the Passenger service agents at AA. At the time, the board required a “showing of interest” from at least 35 percent of the eligible employees who wanted a union vote.
The board determined the union gathered sufficient signature cards from employees to call the election, and ordered American to submit a list of names and addresses of eligible employees.
American refused and filed a lawsuit in U.S. District Court in Fort Worth to block the election, citing legislation passed in February that required at least 50 percent of eligible voters to express interest for the board to call an election. AA sued the Mediation Board
The U.S. Department of Justice argued for the National Mediation Board. Court of Appeals should dismiss American Airlines’ request to rehear the court’s unanimous decision supporting agents’ right to vote for representation, and issue an immediate mandate for the district court to throw out the suit and allow the election to proceed
U.S. senators sent a letter to AMR CEO Tom Horton disputing the company’s basis for filing the lawsuit, saying an amendment to the FAA authorization bill was not intended to be retroactive to cover elections already filed before the NMB, including our election.
The appeals court declared that the board was correct to allow a union election based on the rule in place when the CWA requested an election (requiring interest from at least 35 percent of eligible employees).

AA has wasted nearly $2 million on legal actions to stop them from voting. CWA filed for a election almost a year ago “What are they afraid of? delaying the election while putting employees through layoffs, outsourcing and downgrading.
Five legal firms have been hired to work on labor law against CWA.
AA refused to turnover eligible names and addresses to the National Mediation Board (NMB) as ordered. AA contends that CWA should be held to a 50 percent card-signing mandate, which was attached to the longterm FAA spending bill that passed Congress in February 2012. CWA filed under the 35 percent rule, which was in effect in December 2011.
AA filed a lawsuit against the NMB to stop CWA first scheduled election in May 2012. The U.S. Department of Justice ruled it meritless.
A second election was scheduled by the NMB for June 2012. AA filed another lawsuit against the NMB.
AA prevailed in federal court in June 2012, when a Texas Judge Terry Means basically legislated from the bench, stating we have to be held to the “new” standard. The DOJ filed an expedited appeal in federal court on behalf of the NMB. Despite three separate letters sent to CEO Tom Horton, including from the authors of the amended FAA bill, various senators and members of Congress, AA still contends that the “new” standard should apply.
American Airlines agents will vote for representation beginning Dec. 4, and ending Jan. 15, 2013. American Airlines management has indicated that it would appeal the decision to the U.S. Supreme Court, threatening to continue its frivolous legal actions.
Passenger service agents at USAirways may end up without union representation if AA gets it way
 
Federal Law doesnt require employees to vote on which union they will join after a merger.

If a union is more than 35% of the total workforce they will get the certification unless the other union gets 35% of cards signed by the combined workforce to force an election.

There was no election at US for the IAM or TWU for fleet service nor was there one for Mechanic and Related between the IAM and the IBT.

The unions better watch what the AA union busting machine is up to
 
Federal labor law requires that the represented employees vote on which union will represent them following a merger - Parker's desires are irrelevant. Management has nothing to do with the timing of that representation vote.

Oh, Great Oracle and Company Mouthpiece, how do you plan (I'm sure you'll be in charge since you always have all the answers) to assure that the LCC East pilots will quietly fall into lockstep with the law and the courts and go along with whatever is decided--particularly in relation to the seniority list? The past 7 years of losing one ruling after another hasn't made much difference to them.

P.S. I wouldn't bet your mortgage money on an assumption that is only the former TWA f/as who are fed up with the APFA. Our current "contract" (if you want to dignify it with that term) has holes in it that you could drive a truck through. Flight attendants--particularly those subject to reserve--are not happy with the number of issues that go unanswered, and the APFA's answer when you call is "we'll have to get back to you on that." Which they don't. In the meantime, their answer is what it has always been when the company schedules you illegally..."fly the trip and we can always grieve it later."
 
The past 7 years of losing one ruling after another hasn't made much difference to them.

Your statement is misleading. While I am not particularly keeping count as you seem to be, most of those rulings you are citing have NOTHING to do with the seniority list. The east has lost ONE court ruling on seniority, after which they won on appeal in a higher court which nullified the loss. In the recent suit in Judge Silver's court, she dismissed both the company's and west west pilots' motions, and upheld USAPA's motion.

Please explain how this amounts to losing one court ruling after another on the seniority issue with which you opened your post?
 
I don't think it is an issue between employee groups. This will be the deciding factor in the answer to most of your questions...what course of action requires the least outlay of money by the company. If Parker or his successor can delay paying the US pilots and f/as at AA scale by keeping them squabbling and in separate unions from AA employees, I see no reason why he should push for a single pilots' union or f/as' union.
Oh, Great Oracle and Company Mouthpiece, how do you plan (I'm sure you'll be in charge since you always have all the answers) to assure that the LCC East pilots will quietly fall into lockstep with the law and the courts and go along with whatever is decided--particularly in relation to the seniority list? The past 7 years of losing one ruling after another hasn't made much difference to them.

P.S. I wouldn't bet your mortgage money on an assumption that is only the former TWA f/as who are fed up with the APFA. Our current "contract" (if you want to dignify it with that term) has holes in it that you could drive a truck through. Flight attendants--particularly those subject to reserve--are not happy with the number of issues that go unanswered, and the APFA's answer when you call is "we'll have to get back to you on that." Which they don't. In the meantime, their answer is what it has always been when the company schedules you illegally..."fly the trip and we can always grieve it later."
Like i said it will be very interesting concerning the APFA, there is no such thing as a perfect union and I know the AFA is not perfect, but theres alot of us junior fa's on" permanent" reserve. Alot of us have never been off and if we merge with US will never be off. Also I cant even get the APFA to return my phone calls or emails so.....multiply that by a few thousand and.....will be interesting either way. We may have gotten a little raise (which im grateful for BTW) but I dont think the APFA remaining is a sure bet. I would say closer to 50/50
 
What is thread about?

There will only be sunshine!

&

Chirping birds!

&

Butterflies!

😛 😛
 
If a merger occurs what will be most important to the majority of AA union members? I ask because I believe the current situation with the US pilots and f/as will not be important and will take a backseat to the interests of the larger AA unions. The US employees have shown themselves to be vulnerable and divided. IMO, the US employees should have signed labor agreements in place with current US management before any merger proceeds, but I do not believe that is going to be the case and in the event of a merger, the US employee interests will take a backseat to the larger AA unions.

Well, well, I got a new name for you johnny kat/signals 😛

It loses something when I say what you say, huh? 🙄 😛
 
I think that when it comes time to vote on the union (for the fa's) the AFA will probably win. I havent talked to too many fs'a about it but the few that I have talked to say they will vote AFA. I doubt any of the ex TWA fa's will vote for the APFA and most junior AA fa's will prob vote AFA. The APFA is pushing for the merger, but then they will probably get voted out of existence. Will be very interesting either way.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't the AA fas outnumber US fas by 2 to 1?
 

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