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What's the value of and Iraq's life

Garfield1966

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It seems that Blackwater and the rest of the security firms in Iraq have little regard for human life. I guess we should not be surprised when the penalty is only $15k and it would seem, no prosecution for the guilty party.

We, the tax payer also get the added bonus of being screwed over by our government by being charged $1,200 per day per a employee. That is 6 times more than a US soldier gets paid.

The last I checked these are or should be criminal acts. If a US military personal committed any of these acts, I am guessing charges would be filed and a discharge would be forth coming (if he/she was lucky). I guess if you are part of Blackwater on a no bid contract and have an owner who is a large contributer to the current administration there are separate rules that apply.

On June 25, 2005, a Blackwater team in Hillah fatally shot an Iraqi man, a father of six, in the chest. The victim’s family complained to the State Department, which said in an internal report that the Blackwater gunmen initially failed to report the killing and tried to cover it up.

On Sept. 24, 2006, a Blackwater convoy with four vehicles was driving the wrong way on a road in Hillah when a red Opel failed to get out of the way. The Opel skidded into one of the Blackwater vehicles, disabling it. The Opel then hit a telephone pole and burst into flames. The Blackwater team scooped up its people and equipment from the disabled vehicle and fled the scene without attempting to help the occupants of the burning car.

On Nov. 28, 2005, a Blackwater motorcade traveling to and from the Iraqi oil ministry collided with 18 different vehicles. According to an internal Blackwater report of the incident, the statements from employees were “invalid, inaccurate, and at best, dishonest.â€￾ Two Blackwater employees were dismissed, but there was no other apparent action taken as a result.


And people wonder why the reputation of the the US has sunk to the level it has? This is embarrassing and criminal. Seems to go hand in hand with this administration though.
 
Gar...these guys are way beyond military capability.

Thats why they're sought.

Uncle Sam knows a pro when he sees them.
 
Whether or not that is true I do not know. I have seen/head nothing to support that claim.

Regardless, what does that have to do with the fact that they are committing what would normally be considered criminal acts and facing little if any consequence for their actions? They have committed murder. A US soldier is up on murder charges but Blackwater gets away with paying $15k? More than likely that came out of our pocket and not theirs.
 
Special forces soldiers are hand picked.Training is above what a boot soldier gets.And when they go into a country like Iraq,they have stipulations in their contract about the laws of that country and what they can be held accountable for.
 
As I posted in the Merc thread, I know they are immune to prosecution and that is the problem. They are not subject to military law, Iraqi law, US law .. nothing. They can do as they will without fear of prosecution. That is wrong. They have committed murder and they are allowed by the US, which is supposed to be a land rules by law and a beacon for the rest of the "uncivilized " world, to get away with it. What does that say about our nation? What does it say about democracy and the rule of law? The corruption in this administration is obscene.
 
As I posted in the Merc thread, I know they are immune to prosecution and that is the problem. They are not subject to military law, Iraqi law, US law .. nothing. They can do as they will without fear of prosecution. That is wrong. They have committed murder and they are allowed by the US, which is supposed to be a land rules by law and a beacon for the rest of the "uncivilized " world, to get away with it. What does that say about our nation? What does it say about democracy and the rule of law? The corruption in this administration is obscene.
These types have been used in every war in recent history. They are just more transparent now due to the advanced media technology. I am no fan of "this administration" but these type of forces have been used by every party/administration in every war. If they were subject to Iraqi law you would have pictures of these guys being beheaded and dragged through the streets of Baghdad.
 
As I posted in the Merc thread, I know they are immune to prosecution and that is the problem. They are not subject to military law, Iraqi law, US law .. nothing. They can do as they will without fear of prosecution. That is wrong. They have committed murder and they are allowed by the US, which is supposed to be a land rules by law and a beacon for the rest of the "uncivilized " world, to get away with it. What does that say about our nation? What does it say about democracy and the rule of law? The corruption in this administration is obscene.


How can this administration be held responsible for what you perceive as corruption when any legalities regarding these types services provided would be hashed out between the company providing the service and the respective government/country they are working in?
 
Muff Daddy

I am guessing that you have not been following any of the proceedings. So let’s review.

Blackwater is under contract to the US and being paid for by the US. Part of the contract that Blackwater (along with the other security firms) stipulates that they are not to be subject to Iraqi law (or what ever country they are in). Give that the Iraqi government cannot fart with out permission from their US overlords, they have no say in the matter.

Since they are not military they are also not subject to military law.

The only law they are subject too is US criminal law. So where are you going to find a US lawyer willing to go up against the Federal Government on a pro-bono basis? Will the US government even allow the case to proceed?

To sum it up, we pay the bills, we make the laws we are responsible. Any questions?



Tech2101

I realize that Mercs have been used for quite some time, but to my knowledge, they have never been used to this degree or in this volume. I do not expect them to be held to Iraqi law but I do expect them to held accountable for their actions. One of their employees was drunk and killed a guard. Are you implying that the employee in question should not be held liable in any way? How about the company for allowing this to happen? While we are at it, should we really be paying them $1,200 a day? Why are US forces not protecting US assets?

As far as I am concerned this is just one more piece of evidence that shows the incompetence of W and his minions. Hey sent in the military to do a job they are not designed to handle. The military is designed to fight a battle, not baby sit a civil war.

As W said, “Let me tell you what else I'm worried about: I'm worried about an opponent who uses nation building and the military in the same sentence. See, our view of the military is for our military to be properly prepared to fight and win war and, therefore, prevent war from happening in the first place."

Or

I don't think our troops ought to be used for what's called nation building.

Or

... a nation-building corps from America. Absolutely not. Our military is meant to fight.

If Bush and Cheney would actually pay attention to what their handlers tell them to say they may not have made such colossal mistakes.
 
Tech2101

One of their employees was drunk and killed a guard.

Are you implying that the employee in question should not be held liable in any way?

Drunk and killed a guard? (Roll the tape)...

Let's see....Vietnam, smoking pot and killing NVM regulars/Viet Cong...

No, I am not implying anything. War/conflict sucks.

It especially sucks coming from "W". I won't hash out the reason we are there again.
 
Drunk and killed a guard? (Roll the tape)...

Let's see....Vietnam, smoking pot and killing NVM regulars/Viet Cong...

No, I am not implying anything. War/conflict sucks.

It especially sucks coming from "W". I won't hash out the reason we are there again.

NPR Link


The FBI is investigating Blackwater personnel for their roles in a Sept. 16 shootout that left 11 Iraqis dead. That incident and others — including a shooting by an allegedly drunk Blackwater employee after a 2006 Christmas party — has raised questions by lawmakers about the role of contractors when it comes to protecting government employees.

Blackwater has had to fire 122 guards - one-seventh of the personnel it has in Iraq - over the past three years for problems ranging from misuse of weapons, alcohol and drug violations, inappropriate conduct, and violent behavior, the committee report said.


It happened close to a year ago. You would have thought they would have "solved the case" by now. I wonder whats holding up the investigation?

You mean the part about us being there to build up a permanent base in the ME, revenge, oil and piss poor planning? Yea, I can see why you would not want to bring that up again. It is pretty embarrassing.

Edit:

Yahoo News Link

In the case of the Christmas eve shooting, Prince said the company fired and fined the individual.

"But we, as a private organization, can't do any more," he told the House panel. "We can't flog him. We can't incarcerate him. That's up to the Justice Department. We are not empowered to enforce U.S. law."

The Blackwater chairman said he supports legislation that would guarantee his employees and other private security companies working for the State Department are subject to prosecution in U.S. courts. The House was expected to consider such a bill, sponsored by Rep. David Price, D-N.C., on Wednesday.

At the same time, Prince said the government's decision to include the FBI in the investigation of the Sept. 16 incident is proof that oversight and accountability already exists.



The fact that he was fired and fined would suggest that he did something wrong and that the allegations are correct.

Given that they have terminated 1/7th of their work force would suggest they need to vet their thugs a little better. At $1,200 a day I expect a bit more, don't you?
 
How can this administration be held responsible for what you perceive as corruption when any legalities regarding these types services provided would be hashed out between the company providing the service and the respective government/country they are working in?

Everything is this administrations fault right down to the next tropical depression in the east atlantic rolling off the African coast. :lol:
 
The $1,200 a day is to pay for chickenhawks that do not want to reinstitute the draft.
If the $1,200 a day bothers you so much, reinstate the draft.
Then we'll have real soldiers doing the same thing 😛
B) UT

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edited by Me
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Only Cheaper... 😛
 
The $1,200 a day is to pay for chickenhawks that do not want to reinstitute the draft.
If the $1,200 a day bothers you so much, reinstate the draft.
Then we'll have real soldiers doing the same thing 😛
B) UT

-------------------
edited by Me
-------------------

Only Cheaper... 😛

Suites me fine. Reinstate the draft with no deferments.
 

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