Who Can Handle The Truth?

[eolesen]

PlaneBuzz has a somewhat interesting post from yesterday titled "Time for Union, Management To Face Reality".

Please note this is on PlaneBuzz, and not the editorial in an undisclosed newspaper which seems to have been posted on another thread....

It's an interesting post published before all the crap came down on the MD80's, so if you want to forget about that for a few minutes, take some time to read it and the links it refers to.

The various people quoted take both AA's unions and management to task for acting like idiots in the face of $110 oil. APA in particular for their billboards, management for their bonuses, and the TWU for sticking their head in the sand over what Conley said last week. Only the flight attendants escape criticism, since the only thing they've done of note lately are to speak out about the management bonuses...


And please, let's try to discuss this outside the narrow confines of the TWU's perspective for a change... That's why the moderators keep shutting down threads.

 

[mwa]

economics is the tidal wave that will take no prisoners. no force known to man will defy it. there is a concept known as essential air service - a small sector that stands as a twig against the flow with gov't subsidy. there is a new tier of cities that will be joining the ranks of impossible to serve now that energy is no longer purchased on the cheap. gov't will not be able to sustain the transportation system at taxpayor's expense or save the trucking industry either. we are facing now what the steel industry faced in the last decades. had 11 companies - now 3. looking for organ donors.

 

[American Air Surf]

economics is the tidal wave that will take no prisoners. no force known to man will defy it. there is a concept known as essential air service - a small sector that stands as a twig against the flow with gov't subsidy. there is a new tier of cities that will be joining the ranks of impossible to serve now that energy is no longer purchased on the cheap. gov't will not be able to sustain the transportation system at taxpayor's expense or save the trucking industry either. we are facing now what the steel industry faced in the last decades. had 11 companies - now 3. looking for organ donors.

The FACTS, that have brought us to this juncture are as follows:

1.) NAFTA, WTO, and the outsourcing of jobs to the lowest bidder-
2.) The systemic dismantling of the U.S. through-
a.) Financial Manipulation of the Markets, followed/allowed by the Federal Reserve & U.S. Govt.
b.) Manipulation of Gold/Silver
c.) Fiat Money System
d.) Shadow Banking System, outside of Federal Jurisdiction (They want it that way)
e.) U.S. Entitlement programs/ U.S. debt.
3.) Corruption at all levels of Govt., and non-enforcement of Laws on the books.
4.) Illegal Immigration/ allowed
5.) Peak Oil, which will be the achillies Heel, which will bring the U.S. to it's knees- (Why we are in
IRAQ- OIL)
6.) In summation, The U.S. Constitution, basically no longer exsists. And we the populace,
muchless the unions, are powerless, to stop the above, when the jobs are no longer resident
within the U.S.

Short of an all out riot by the populace, and run on the U.S. Government to change policy. We now live in a fascist society- Bought and paid for by corporations, and offshore accounts

:rant: :rant:

 

[mwa]

the republic became the welfare state under FDR - the "hero." like opium people cannot get enough transfer payments/subsidy/redistribution.

 

[Borescope]

The FACTS, that have brought us to this juncture are as follows:

1.) NAFTA, WTO, and the outsourcing of jobs to the lowest bidder-
2.) The systemic dismantling of the U.S. through-
a.) Financial Manipulation of the Markets, followed/allowed by the Federal Reserve & U.S. Govt.
b.) Manipulation of Gold/Silver
c.) Fiat Money System
d.) Shadow Banking System, outside of Federal Jurisdiction (They want it that way)
e.) U.S. Entitlement programs/ U.S. debt.
3.) Corruption at all levels of Govt., and non-enforcement of Laws on the books.
4.) Illegal Immigration/ allowed
5.) Peak Oil, which will be the achillies Heel, which will bring the U.S. to it's knees- (Why we are in
IRAQ- OIL)
6.) In summation, The U.S. Constitution, basically no longer exsists. And we the populace,
muchless the unions, are powerless, to stop the above, when the jobs are no longer resident
within the U.S.

Short of an all out riot by the populace, and run on the U.S. Government to change policy. We now live in a fascist society- Bought and paid for by corporations, and offshore accounts

:rant: :rant:

AA Surf...........


Right on the money!!

When are we all going to wake up and do something for ourselves. There are toooooo many people in this country that are just waiting for the next handout from Uncle Sam. I say give them some time to get it together (with assistance), then when the time runs out, cut 'em off at the knees.

Why are we giving billions in tax credits to big oil????

 

[Bagbelt]

FDR saved the republic. Between the world wars democracy was on the wane and with 40% of the population out of work with no hope, the only alternatives were communism or facism. The biggest problem facing our country is that we have been importing more than we export for decades. To get money back into the country we can print more or sell debt. We are running out of options.

 

[MCI transplant]

<_< ------- This thread is about "can you handle the truth"? Well the truth is the reason we won WWII is that we "out produced" the other side! The plane truth is we no longer have the ability to do that! We as a country can no longer produce the goods we need to live our lives from day to day! So we're importing them! -------So where does that put us?---- Up a creak, with a paddle that says "Made in China!" :down:

 

[Ed Norton]

the republic became the welfare state under FDR - the "hero." like opium people cannot get enough transfer payments/subsidy/redistribution.

The Republic became an Empire long before FDR came along. After sinking its own ship in Havana harbor (the U.S.S. Maine) the U.S. started a war with Spain in which it gained control of the latter's interests in Latin America and the Phillipnes. Then, as now, this war for Empire was incited by U.S. corporate intersts.The downfall of this country has been the adherence to this policy of world wide corporate empire. Yet many think that U.S. corporate interests and the interests of the American people are one and the same. They are not. The American sheeple need to wake up from their media induced slumber.

 

[novaqt]

Interesting way to cut fuel costs; come up with a way to cancel hundreds of flights to fix a bogus problem which is not really a problem at all. Someone should look at the what the airlines have budgeted for their annual fuel costs for the MD80's and/or, if hedged, check to see if there is a proviso in the contracts that if fuel prices rise beyond a given $$ amount, the hedged price comes unhinged.

 

[mwa]

FDR saved the republic. Between the world wars democracy was on the wane and with 40% of the population out of work with no hope, the only alternatives were communism or facism. The biggest problem facing our country is that we have been importing more than we export for decades. To get money back into the country we can print more or sell debt. We are running out of options.

that's why the depression only lasted 10 yrs?

 

[Delta Technician]

<_< ------- This thread is about "can you handle the truth"? Well the truth is the reason we won WWII is that we "out produced" the other side! The plane truth is we no longer have the ability to do that! We as a country can no longer produce the goods we need to live our lives from day to day! So we're importing them! -------So where does that put us?---- Up a creak, with a paddle that says "Made in China!" :down:

We can produce them...we opt to take the cheaper path though.

 

[Bob Owens]

the republic became the welfare state under FDR - the "hero." like opium people cannot get enough transfer payments/subsidy/redistribution.

Perhaps but it was also seen that FDR saved Capitalism from itself. Remember that the Great Depression was in full swing, hungry people are easy to radicalize and much more likely to take part in violent rebellions. Capitalists and speculation were seen as the cause of the suffering of people who didnt take part in the Roaring 20s. The attack on veterans in Washington DC didnt help things either. Prior to FDRs reforms the fastest growing party in the US was the Communist Party. This was causing a lot of concern among the old money crowd. One banking executive commented in a financial publication that if they dont find a way to win the hearts of the people their system would be voted out of existance. Roosevelt(Democrat), did the same thing his cousin Teddy (Republican) did, he took from the opposition that which appealed to the masses and made it his. Thus leaving the upstart with no platform.

Most of the New Deal programs were good solid programs the opium that you speak of was not government entitlement prorams for the people paid for by the people, the opium-something destructive that makes you feel good-was the growth of credit cards and the ability of credit card providing banks to charge loan shark rates. Credit allowed people to spend more than they had and run themselves into debt. This debt will be the ultimate demise of the working class.

 

[Bob Owens]

<_< ------- This thread is about "can you handle the truth"? Well the truth is the reason we won WWII is that we "out produced" the other side! The plane truth is we no longer have the ability to do that! We as a country can no longer produce the goods we need to live our lives from day to day! So we're importing them! -------So where does that put us?---- Up a creak, with a paddle that says "Made in China!" :down:

Or Vietnam!

Imports and exports have been a fact of life for as long as civilization has existed. Kevin Phillips has a few good books out about how and why dominant societies fail. We are not as unique as we think. While technology changes people dont.

As long as we continue to agree to sacrifice our wealth and give it to the wealthy things will only get worse. We will never see a return on that investment-the events at UAL pretty much paint as clear of a picture as you could ever hope for:
-Shares of Airline are sold to employees by banks and other creditors, the purchase of shares is involuntary.
-Shares are paid for with wage concession by Employees
-Employees are not allowed to sell shares-in other words they dont own them unless they quit.
-management put in place by banks and other creditors (the other shareholders)run up company debt-debt held by banks and other creditors
-Management declares bankruptcy and current shares are liquidated and new shares are issued to banks and other creditors
-Employees are left with no stock and court imposed paycuts, paycuts put in place to insure that the banks and other crditors get their money.

Either this country wants an air transportation system or it doesnt, I dont think it really has a choice. The question for us is are we willing to subsidize air travel with our wages? The fact is plenty of people are making money off this industry even if the industry itself claims its not making money. There is a reason why these large financial institutions retain enough airline stock to maintaian control of the airlines. When we strike those other institutions are the ones that start losing money too. Thats why despite all the losses this industry still exists, thats why the goverment strips us of our rights and why big financial institutions keep stock in an industry that they claim has been losing money for over 70 years.

 

[Ed Norton]

Perhaps but it was also seen that FDR saved Capitalism from itself. Remember that the Great Depression was in full swing, hungry people are easy to radicalize and much more likely to take part in violent rebellions. Capitalists and speculation were seen as the cause of the suffering of people who didnt take part in the Roaring 20s. The attack on veterans in Washington DC didnt help things either. Prior to FDRs reforms the fastest growing party in the US was the Communist Party. This was causing a lot of concern among the old money crowd. One banking executive commented in a financial publication that if they dont find a way to win the hearts of the people their system would be voted out of existance. Roosevelt(Democrat), did the same thing his cousin Teddy (Republican) did, he took from the opposition that which appealed to the masses and made it his. Thus leaving the upstart with no platform.

Most of the New Deal programs were good solid programs the opium that you speak of was not government entitlement prorams for the people paid for by the people, the opium-something destructive that makes you feel good-was the growth of credit cards and the ability of credit card providing banks to charge loan shark rates. Credit allowed people to spend more than they had and run themselves into debt. This debt will be the ultimate demise of the working class.

Bob, you are absolutely right. The New Deal saved the capitalists from themselves. All this "New Dealing" was anathema to the likes of Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of business boys. Let the free market rule was their mantra. No government intervention, privatization of all utilities and no minimum wage. Today we see the results of this so called "free market." Who's going to save the capitalists now?

 

[Bob Owens]

Bob, you are absolutely right. The New Deal saved the capitalists from themselves. All this "New Dealing" was anathema to the likes of Milton Friedman and the Chicago School of business boys. Let the free market rule was their mantra. No government intervention, privatization of all utilities and no minimum wage. Today we see the results of this so called "free market." Who's going to save the capitalists now?

If you get a chance rent or buy "The Corporation" from Zeitgeist Video. Milton Friedman makes some intesting comments in it.

Its unbelievable how Free Marketeers want the free market until they screw up-then they demand corporate welfare.