Will the employees agree to permanent wage and benefit cuts?

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
4,421
301
miami
goldwatermiller08.com
Well, the 3% deal was getting them no where, so now its shoot the moon. I can''t even begin to guess how this will all end up. We will do what''s necessary for the companies survival. We wont walk in to a dead end deal.
APFA members are being asked for 340 million in cuts. The BOD will meet and the negotiating committee will have to work out numbers, value''s and where to cut.
 

Goodyear_26

Newbie
Aug 28, 2002
3
0
Before we get too militant about this wage reduction proposal, stop and think further about the ramifications.

Are you really that interested in Aviation? Are you really interested in Airlines? Is what you are doing just another job?

I hope that enough of you are really still into the thrill of flight. It's like if you loved trains you'd probably be working for the railroads.

Of course it's a sacrifice AA is asking of it's employees, but if it means you will still have a job, or even better, a job to come back to, then go for it.

I came into the airline business back in 1956 and have witnessed the history and the demise of many Majors. UAL and US may soon join the ranks of these failures.

So now is the time to bite the bullet if you love this business. Sure it will be tough for a while. Try being retired when all the costs around you keep increasing! You'll survive amd hopefully in a very few years be glad you made the sacrifice.

Be militant now, and you can add AA to the honorable list of failed airlines. Give it a chance to work and you may be thankfull that you did so.

As I look back on my career, I'm so very glad that I entered it in the heyday of aviation, and even then I was about 40 years late. But we loved flying and all it entailed. If you don't, then all of this post is wasted on you.
 

RV4

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,885
80
www.usaviation.com
What does "Permanent" wage and benefit cuts mean?

This word means never to be reversed or renegotiated to me.

Does anyone know the terms on length fo request?
 

flyhigh

Veteran
Jan 4, 2003
657
0
This includes work rules as well. Don't assume it is all wage and benefit related (directly).
 
"Today, as a last resort, we are taking the difficult step of asking all of our employees to participate in American's recovery by working with us to deliver $1.8 billion in permanent, steady-state savings. We hope to work collaboratively with you to restructure labor agreements to realize these permanent, annual savings and those needed to address our long-term financial health."
 

kirkpatrick

Veteran
Aug 20, 2002
1,345
212
Long Island, NY
Has AA asked for specific changes or just dollar amounts? At TWA's first bankruptcy in 1992 we were given a dollar figure and negotiated which items to give up among benefits, work rules and pay rates. Thus we were able to preserve most of our pay while taking hits in vacation, duty rigs, etc.

MK
 
B

bagsmasher

Guest
I don't think there is even a slim chance all the work groups will give up the 1.8 billion that is needed.

A TWAer over at MCIE was asked recently how things are going over at the base, and his reply was "Ain't worth a sh*t since AA took over." This person got to extend his career, with 100% occupational seniority, and a huge pay raise, and he thinks AA sucks.

Carty wanted "culture at AA." Then he proceeded to do the absolute worst thing for morale in the workgroups, buy another failed carrier.

Carty spent about one billion to buy TWA, and took on another three billion in leases and debt. The outcome is that they now say that TWA is a one billion dollar a year drag on AMR.

Now I'm supposed to help Carty out, to finance his hugely expensive business model that no longer may be sound? We are now supposed to take paycut after paycut, when our management has no real plan on how to compete with the low-cost carriers? Continue to shrink in the face of their competition, is not a business plan.

I know that the future of AA depends on it, but my vote is NO. I'll make a living some other way after AA, but I refuse to reward an employer who continually screws its employees. Maybe some day all airlines will treat their employees like WN does.
 

mike7867

Member
Nov 7, 2002
31
0
all i know if we are to take a pay cut i like to see something in return. if we are paying to keep our jobs i hope we get to keep them. not like US did, got there concessions then have a major layoff. heck if anything, if we take a paycut and there is a layoff we should get our severence pay. none of this bs about there being a war and we dont have to pay severence. all i know is i dont want any stock. still got about 900 shares of twa stock from last pay cut.
 

AAquila

Senior
Sep 22, 2002
357
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/4/2003 10:50:14 PM bagsmasher wrote:

I'll make a living some other way after AA, ----------------


Do you want fries, with that?


[/blockquote]
 

FibberMcGee

Member
Aug 20, 2002
85
0
www.usaviation.com
Bagsmasher, You obviously are so anti AA and TWA you'll never be happy. Why do you stay. The work groups will do what needs to be done. If you are as unhappy as you seem, why stay? The fact remains, the TWA deal was done 2 years ago. Get over it already. The industry has changed dramatically. We can choose to keep the airline viable or tear it apart. Its going to happen one way or the other and quite frankly I prefer it does not happen in bankrupcty court. I truly believe that senior management does not want bankruptcy. What are your suggestions? Its easy to complain and play the blame game. We are at a critical point whether you think so or not. I think that majority want to see the company survive and thrive. I think your negativity can only hurt things. Good luck to you and to all of American Airlines. And to the customers of AA, "Thank-you for flying with us!"
 

rampguy

Advanced
Aug 21, 2002
116
0
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/4/2003 10:50:14 PM bagsmasher wrote:

I don't think there is even a slim chance all the work groups will give up the 1.8 billion that is needed.

A TWAer over at MCIE was asked recently how things are going over at the base, and his reply was "Ain't worth a sh*t since AA took over." This person got to extend his career, with 100% occupational seniority, and a huge pay raise, and he thinks AA sucks.

Carty wanted "culture at AA." Then he proceeded to do the absolute worst thing for morale in the workgroups, buy another failed carrier.

Carty spent about one billion to buy TWA, and took on another three billion in leases and debt. The outcome is that they now say that TWA is a one billion dollar a year drag on AMR.

Now I'm supposed to help Carty out, to finance his hugely expensive business model that no longer may be sound? We are now supposed to take paycut after paycut, when our management has no real plan on how to compete with the low-cost carriers? Continue to shrink in the face of their competition, is not a business plan.

I know that the future of AA depends on it, but my vote is NO. I'll make a living some other way after AA, but I refuse to reward an employer who continually screws its employees. Maybe some day all airlines will treat their employees like WN does.
----------------
[/blockquote]

and for every TWA employee you can name or make up, I can do the same with a disgruntled AA employee starting with you. It doesn't mean anything other than there are always unhappy people that need to move on including that real or imagined TWAer (which there isn't anymore) and you.
 

mike7867

Member
Nov 7, 2002
31
0
i wish people would just get over the AA/TWA deal it is really getting old now. i have a feeling that i going to be hearing this for the rest of my career. heck we still got guys crying about ozark still. i work for twa for 10 yrs, and i love it. i have work now for american for 2 yrs and guess what i still love doing my job.
 
OP
F

FA Mikey

Veteran
Aug 19, 2002
4,421
301
miami
goldwatermiller08.com
[blockquote]
----------------
On 2/4/2003 10:50:14 PM bagsmasher wrote:

I don't think there is even a slim chance all the work groups will give up the 1.8 billion that is needed.

----------------
[/blockquote]
AA employees will give back amounts close to what, AA is requesting. Together the company and unions will come up with the necessary adjustments.

What needs to be made clear is there will be NO permanent changes. Anything taken should be returned on a predetermined schedule or as the company achieves targeted levels of recovery.
 
[blockquote]
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On 2/5/2003 8:57:48 AM FA Mikey wrote:

What needs to be made clear is there will be NO permanent changes. Anything taken should be returned on a predetermined schedule or as the company achieves targeted levels of recovery.
----------------
[/blockquote]


I guess you missed this:

American Airlines today asked its labor leaders and employees for $1.8 billion in permanent, annual savings through a combination of changes in wages, benefits and work rules.


One can only hope the union leadership has seen and taken note of what happened to the contracts at UAL and U.

Personally, I think we'll stall, bicker and drag our feet right into Chapter 11.