vote of conscious and something to consider F/A''s

FA Mikey

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Aug 19, 2002
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goldwatermiller08.com
After seeing and hearing what the APFA negotiating team had to say. I find myself questioning what will be best course of action. Having this settled before a judge is by the worst case scenario.

The value of the concessions APFA has on paper is actually better than 420 million. Not the 340 AA is putting it at.

AA dictated the terms and values. What cost in the last round of negotiations 8 million was suddenly worth only 2 million. For example the 4000 people on leave our analyst estimate the contractual cost to be running about 30 million dollars. Full Benefits, passes, full seniority and vacation accrual, AA says is worth 6 million. At the same time crew meals are costing AA 7 million. Isn''t that amazing how expensive food is compared to the cost of benefits for 4,300 people. something is wrong with there calculator.

I cannot advocate a yes vote any longer. I am left to wonder if in BK, AA would be more likely negotiate on a faired level. Not saying they will or wont.

My concern now is that AA fully intends to go for BK protection. That they will use what we in good conscious agree to as a starting point for further cuts. Not from the current agreement as it should be if we do not agree to any cuts.

Based on the people at the Miami meeting a strong NO vote is coming for the APFA.
 
OP
F

FA Mikey

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Aug 19, 2002
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He got the low down from the negotiating team for APFA. When I say low down, it can''t even begin to describe how low and dirty this company was in those days negotiating at the charm farm.
 

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
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Where did FAMikey go?
Could it be he went to see what UALs FAs are getting?
Do you have the guts to reveal who you are now? Are you an elected official? Well if you are and you do, you are gone, you will be thankful every time you look at your paycheck that your members did not follow your advice.
 

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
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How long have you been here? This is news to you?
Welcome to the real world.

"This is a nasty rotten business"
Bob Crandall - (one of the people who made it that way)
 

airlineorphan

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
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Good luck to all of you from a f/a from US. A word of caution:

We agreed to massive concessions at US Airways in July under the understanding that we were keeping the company out of Chapter 11.

That weekend, the management immediately took the company into Chapter 11.

That was okay many thought, because we had 1113 letters in our agreements, security bought with our concessions. The letters would protect us from more concessions being wrung from us via the bankruptcy judge. And besides, the company told us they didn''t plan on coming back for any more. We''d given them what they needed.

Then Tuesday before Thanksgiving, the company slashed an extra 2500 jobs and announced that they needed another $200 million/year. The DIP financing investor, David Bronner, played the bad cop role and said in the papers: "The unions will agree to the concessions because if they don''t, I''ll pull the DIP financing and liquidate the thing."

Thus, the company didn''t need to violate it''s 1113 letters by going through the judge. The threat of parking the planes and selling them for scrap was enough to terrorize employees into agreeing to more cuts.

Management wasn''t done though. The pilots'' pension was an obstacle to emerging from Chapter 11. And if the plan wasn''t terminated and replaced with a crappy 401K style plan, we would still liquidate.

Liquidate liquidate liquidate. They said it so many times that some people call Dave Siegel Liquidave.


And our failure to hold the line anywhere along the way has given AMR management leverage to threaten you all. I wish we hadn''t lowered the bar, but we have.

Keep this in mind. We went in to negotiations essentially offering management part of Czechoslovakia if they wouldn''t overrun everything. And so management overran everything. Over and over again.

Now that we''re out of Chapter 11, they still drop hints that they may need more. And now that we''ve given them all the concessions, they are trampling all over the contract they crammed down out throats. Employees are being stalked by management, beset by sting operations, terminated right and left. Once we gave in to them, management has no respect.

I cannot tell you how to vote, not being in your workplace (though it should be obvious what I would do if I were). But I hope you will keep in mind the horrible experience US Airways (and UAL employees) are going through right now.

However you decide, it will be a rough ride, because airline management at all the big carriers seems hellbent to break the strength of our unions and to convert our carriers into sweatshops in the sky.

In solidarity,
-Airlineorphan
 

airlineorphan

Senior
Aug 20, 2002
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----------------
On 4/9/2003 6:31:25 PM RV4 wrote:


RV4<<----------Slapping face and head!

Is that FA Mikey or was he taken hostage by a truth sayer?

----------------​


Hey RV4,
If you''re referring to the post by "Airlineorphan" (me), no, I''m not FA Mikey. I''m a visitor from the new LCC they call US Airways. Just hoping you all don''t suffer the mess we''re experiencing!

Watch each other''s backs!

-Airlineorphan
 

Bob Owens

Veteran
Sep 9, 2002
14,274
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----------------
On 4/9/2003 6:50:43 PM FA Mikey wrote:

He is just blown away by my change of heart. Which is thanks to AA.

----------------​

Me too.

I love being right.
Its not superiority or anything like that, but a love of history.
The Irish say that the future is the past happening all over again. We dont even have to look back that far yet we get burnt by the same, slightly modified tactics over and over again. When will we ever learn?
 

ArtTang

Advanced
Feb 14, 2003
221
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FAMIKEY,
I''m kind of blown away too! Welcome back from the dark side! All kidding aside, I think it is very telling that someone who was so supportive of the YES vote would do a 180. It is a sad commentary about AA and the management team. This company could have had full support from labor had it been equitable in the concessions. There is no way in hell I''m taking what amounts to a 28% pay/benefit cut (including 33% cut in vacation)for 6 years while managers at my salary are taking a "blended" 7% cut and keeping vacations up to 6 weeks with no time frame. F/As went for years without pay raises and we only received retro pay in our last contract at a fraction of the true lost earnings we incurred during the protracted negotiations.
Management loves to tell the media how they haven''t received raises in 3 years and we F/As are at the top of the industry in pay. That is crap. AA f/as have only "been at the top" of the industry since our contract was ratified one day after 9-11. So we have been at the top for a brief amount of time. Prior to our current contract, we were lagging well behind UAl and Delta. So, FAMIKEY, all I can say is, it''s good that you''ve kept an open mind and it''s good that you educated yourself about the situation. That is all I ask of anyone...whether you vote yes or no, just do it after you study the pros & cons and do it with a clear conscience.
Art
 

firstamendment

Veteran
Apr 1, 2003
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Airlineorphan from U speaks the truth about what took place during bankruptcy. If people are indeed being fired left and right, I think our union reps should take note of them and list them for all the membership to see, I would like to see proof of Orphan''s allegations. No offense O, but my experience with my fellow f/a''s is alot of exagerrating. I do know of a international f/a fired for stealing booze. If that''s the case, he should go. Not to worry, most get their jobs back whether they deserve it or not.

But O is absolutely correct. If you think your company won''t keep coming back for more, think again. The choice sucks. You''re damned if you do and damned if you don''t. The following is probably what will happen IMO:

1. Vote yes or we will file bankruptcy.
2. Thank you for your ratification, but our
figures aren''t adding up, so we regret having
to file Chapter 11

or

We stated that all labor groups must ratify
their contracts or we would be forced to filed
Chapter 11. Since this has not happened, we
regret that we must file.
3. The economy is not improving as we projected.
We regret to announce that we need an
additional $200,000,000.00 dollars.
4. DIP threatens to pull funds and liquidate.
5. Unions forced to accept threats and give.

or
Call DIPs bluff and take a chance of
liquidation.
6. Thank you for giving but we must now do
something about the pilot''s retirement
pension.
7. DIP..Give it or we liquidate.
8. Pilots give in not wanting to be the one to
cause 100,000 jobs lost.
9. Thank you for your sacrifice. We are out of
bankruptcy but because of the war in Iraq, and
well, because we can, we are going to force
feed force dejeur down your sacrificial a**.
10. Meaning we will cut dis and dat and eliminate
dis, dat, and di odder ting, eliminating
more jobs. But don''t worry, you still have
a job so just shut up and be thankful.

....and the insanity goes on and on.

As you can see, rough days are ahead. This was exactly the scenario US Airways just went through. I have had to try and understand that the economy IS in the dumps and it''s not just the airlines going thru this kind of situation (believe me, ask around) ,but what other industry has taken advantage of 9/11 and the Iraqi war as much as the airlines? This is why I have been so torn with my emotions. Guys, the airlines have cried wolf (no pun intended, U) so many times that who knows what is truth and what is manipulation?

I do want to make whatever sacrifices need for my airline to survive and the same for all of you, but I have the same kind of trust to airline managements that the Iraqi people have to the US and UK. I THINK they are here to help, but I''m just not sure if I can trust them.

Am I the ONLY person feeling this way?

Good luck to all of you at AMR. Reminds me of the 2000 presidential election...neither choice was good, it caused a big mess, and the courts will decide the fate.

Good luck and fly safe.