Will United Get The Loan

[coolflyingfool]

The more I see and read, I truly have to wonder if UA will get the loan. I am sorry to say that because both my mother and aunt were F/As for UA and UA was my first flights. My heart says yes but my mind is now on the side of no. Gool luck to all. Just my thoughts.....

 

[C54Capt]

It looks like UA has fox in the henhouse in Illinois. Senator Peter Fitzgerald is lobbying the ATSB to deny UAs loan request. He sees it as undeserved and possibly illegal. See the article: www.rockymountainnews.com/drmn/business/article

good luck to all.

 

[Fly]

United's financial losses resulted from decisions by the carrier, including creation of low-fare carrier Ted Didn't cost extra , repainting aircraft only the ones that were scheduled for REpaint, buying new uniforms WHEN? and paying higher fuel and security costs moot point, everyone is in that boat, said Ed Faberman, president of the Air Carrier Association trade group, whose members include Denver-based Frontier Airlines, Spirit Airlines and AirTran Airways. ahhhhh, that explains it <_<

Faberman said he doesn't envision filing a lawsuit if the board approves United's request, citing the challenge of overturning an agency decision.

Tim Wagner, a spokesman for American Airlines, said, "We have no plans to sue anybody over the ATSB's decision, whichever way it goes."

Gordon Bethune, chief executive of Continental Airlines, said at the Society of American Business Editors and Writers annual meeting May 3 that United's application should be granted if the board thinks the carrier meets all the criteria.

They are presenting their argument (as they should, they are the competition) but will not sue, regardless of the outcome.

 

[LaBradford22]

Should they get the loan? No. The government should not be in the business of bailing out failed businesses. Doing so encourages businesses to take big risks - if it turns out well, the management team makes big bucks, if it doesn't turn out well, who cares? The government will bail your ass out anyway. It's called moral hazard.

Will they get the loan? Of course. There is no politically palatable outcome in an election year that does not have United getting the loan. United is fortunate that it is an election year. That fact will be their saving grace.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Let's also not forget that United has had absolutely terrible employee relations for decades which culminated in the horrific pilot slowdown in the summer of 2000 that cost UAL hundreds of millions of dollars. As a taxpayer, I found the prospect of bailing out the employees who have so harmed their employee absolutely despicable. While many good employees have not inflicted damage on UAL, neither have they done what they needed to do to throw out the union leaders that were hell bent on extracting the last dime from UAL.

The fact that Sen. Fitzgerald is not seeking re-election is precisely why he is being honest about the whole ATSB-UA affair; it makes no business sense and is not justifiable under the original intent of the law. Created just weeks after 9/11, there was a real fear that the US airlines could implode but that fear no longer exists. Other carriers are more than capable of operating every route United serves.

UAL needs to begin developing credible plans to restructure the airline w/o federal aid and it will probably require United abandoning its plans to be a worldwide premier airline. No other airline that has gone through bankrtupcy came out w/ their asset structure essentially intact.

 

[herkav8r]

More misinformation from the people that know it all. Worldtraveler, the pilot's union did kick out the leader that was in charge of the group in 2000. Dubinsky is gone. As for the summer of 2000. Most of the delays were caused by weather which caused delays and pushed crews into overtime which they refused. Wait till this summer of hell with the weather, the TSA, understaffed airlines and RJ's clogging up the system. It will make the summer of 2000 look like childs play with all the up coming delays.

As for employee relations, I thought they were getting much better before I was furloughed in December.

As for the loan, United does deserve it. The gov. has already mettled in the free market by giving out the loan to the LCC's. If they had not, the landscape would have been much different by now and some of the extra capacity would have already been taken out.

One benefit to look at, from a management view point, is that if United survives it will drive down cost at all the other major airlines. It will be used as a bargaining tool against their own employees. The mantra will be that they must drive labor costs below United's to stay competitive. In fact, isn't Delta and Northwest all ready using that against their employee groups? It benefits Bush and his promanagement regime to back the loan and drive down employee costs and reduce the cost to the consumer.

 

[Bizman]

As for employee relations, I thought they were getting much better before I was furloughed in December.

When your back is againts the wall, your going to be as nice as possible to get out of the situation. If UAL wasn't where it is today, I'm sure you would be as surley as ever. That not to say everyone at UAL is surley, but you do have that image attached to you.

 

[Bizman]

The Federal government should allow shutdowns. United Airlines is weakest, operating in Chapter 11 bankruptcy. The airline failed to achieve sufficient cost savings after its December 2002 bankruptcy. Now the airline wants three additional months on its bankruptcy, plus a second crack at a (previously rejected) Federal loan guarantee. Both requests should be rejected.

Full Article

http://www.humaneventsonline.com/article.php?id=3943

 

[Busdrvr]

When your back is againts the wall, your going to be as nice as possible to get out of the situation. If UAL wasn't where it is today, I'm sure you would be as surley as ever. That not to say everyone at UAL is surley, but you do have that image attached to you.

Yeah that's it, UAL goes out to the Jerk Convention to hire it's employee (didn't ya get an invite?) 🙄 <_< . FWIW, UAL hires from the same pool as SWA, DAL, NWA and AMR. What happened in 2000 was a direct result of very bad decisions made by those at the top. But they to are GONE. I will agree to a point with Herc, in an effort to give you, the consumer, what you think you want (low fares at any cost), this summer will be VERY tough for ALL the airlines WRT to delays, ect. UAL will prob bear more of the brunt due to the current "bare bones" staffing level to appease the politico's

 

[Bigsky]

Bizman
The article you posted by James Kruggel (obviously GOP trash), assumes that the ATSB loan is the only savior for United and then goes on to list all the "who takes what" after United fails. With or without the loan UA will survive although you may not see them spanning the globe as you do now.

cheers

bigsky

 

[FA4UA]

Maybe I'm the only one in this forum that is annoyed with this thread, but one clarification: UNITED ISN'T SEEKING A LOAN FROM THE GOV'T! UA is seeking a Loan Guarantee! United isn't going to college, there are no government loans or grants available... it's just a guarantee.

BIZMAN: United has only filed one bankruptcy which started in Dec. 2002. Your last post appears as though you believe there has been an exit and possible re-entry. My opinion is better to take one's time in BK and get one's "financial house in order" then hurry through and exit prematurely (like a certain Star Alliance Partner based in CCY).

It will be interesting to see what happens. I would like to believe based on everything out there that I've read, that if the GUARANTEE doesn't go through, then something is already in the works for a "plan B". Problem is, UA isn't allowed to talk about a plan B since the Gov't would throw their case out if United could get financing arranged through another channel. I don't think it will be the death of UA if the GUARANTEE is declined by the ATSB. (perhaps I'm too optimistic??)

FA4UA

 

[Bigsky]

Maybe I'm the only one in this forum that is annoyed with this thread, but one clarification: UNITED ISN'T SEEKING A LOAN FROM THE GOV'T! UA is seeking a Loan Guarantee! United isn't going to college, there are no government loans or grants available... it's just a guarantee.

Thanks FA4UA
Yea, I think at this point everyone knows that it is a "loan guarantee" and not actual loan as in the big check from the gov't. The topic has been discussed so often that the phrase has been shortened to just loan rather than "The ATSB Loan Guarantee for Airlines Needing Financial Assistance due to the Events of 9/11 Program."

cheers

bigsky

 

[iflyjetz]

Gordon Bethune, chief executive of Continental Airlines, said at the Society of American Business Editors and Writers annual meeting May 3 that United's application should be granted if the board thinks the carrier meets all the criteria.

Fly, that's an interesting turn of events for Gordo. Where'd you get that quote from? Perhaps Gordo now sees that UAL will survive, with or without the loan guarantee and sees LCCs as the bigger threat. To that end, Ted seems to be gunning for the LCCs. Time will tell.

 

[C54Capt]

bigsky,

Thanks your your post. Too bad we don't have an icon or link that we can click on everytime this subject comes up, so that we don't have to be tutored on every thread.

 

[Bizman]

Fly, that's an interesting turn of events for Gordo. Where'd you get that quote from? Perhaps Gordo now sees that UAL will survive, with or without the loan guarantee and sees LCCs as the bigger threat. To that end, Ted seems to be gunning for the LCCs. Time will tell.

Fly left out the final sentence of the quote. From todays Rocky Mountain News which was " But, I don't think they have met the criteria".

See everyone, cuts and pastes to make their point of view look the best.

Lets wait and see