WTF? Teamsters file for UAL AMTs? Is AMFA on the outs?

[johnny gearpin]

I guess the infighting continues... My best to those still in this mess.

Johnny Gearpin


*****Teamsters File for Petition to Represent United Airlines Mechanics*****

Article Link

CHICAGO, Dec. 3 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- The Teamsters on Monday filed for a petition with the National Mediation Board seeking a vote to represent United Airline mechanics.

The filing culminates a 2-year campaign by hundreds of rank-and-file mechanics to gain strong union representation by United airline mechanics.

The Teamsters expect a vote in the next 6 weeks.

"This campaign is part of a larger struggle to ensure the safety and security of the flying public and to keep airline workers in the middle class," Clacy Griswold, Teamsters Airline Division international representative said at a news conference in Chicago.

"Aviation mechanics throughout the industry are highly concerned about the safety and security of our aviation system as more maintenance work is outsourced overseas," Griswold said. "At the Beijing contractor that United uses for some of its jet maintenance there are only five Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) certified mechanics overseeing 2,179 noncertified mechanics. In contrast, at the United San Francisco maintenance base there are 4,248 FAA-certified mechanics out of a total of 4,542."

"The airline's management now says it wants to sell its heavy maintenance facility in San Francisco," Griswold said.

"United management is betraying both its workers and its passengers who trust that the airline is using the most skilled ground and flight crew employees and the safest equipment," Griswold said. "It is also betraying its workers and customers by trying to sell off its Mileage Plus program.

"Airline mechanics throughout the aviation industry want good skilled jobs to stay in the United States. So do the Teamsters."

"The Teamsters also believe that any revenues gained from the sale of assets should be used to restore workers' wages and benefits, not to enrich United's management."

Rich Petrovsky, a mechanic at United's San Francisco maintenance facility for 38 years, led the campaign from the beginning. Teamster airline mechanics at Continental Airlines have worked side by side with United airline mechanics. Together they have staffed information booths, knocked on doors, made telephone calls and handed out leaflets throughout the country.

The campaign has also been helped by Teamster airline mechanics at UPS, US Airways (Allegheny), Aloha Island Air, AirTran, Frontier, NetJets, ExpressJet, Executive Jet, Piedmont, Champion Air, Ross Aviation and GE Engine Services.

"Airline workers have made huge sacrifices since the Sept. 11 attacks," said Teamsters General President Jim Hoffa. "At the same time, outsourcing of maintenance work has undermined airline safety and security.

"United's airline mechanics deserve a strong voice that will stand up to management's attack on their economic security and on the flying public's safety," Hoffa said. "The Teamsters are ready to be that voice."

Today's announcement was made at a news conference at the Hilton Chicago O'Hare Airport. Also speaking were airline mechanics Kevin Giegoldt from Chicago O'Hare International Airport, Tom Reid from Dulles International Airport and Kevin Zunker from Denver International Airport.

The International Brotherhood of Teamsters represents 40,000 airline employees, including more than 9,000 mechanics and related at 11 airlines.

 

[Bob Owens]

Hmm, the IBT is concerned about the safety of the flying public and keeping aircraft mechanics in the middle class. Well then why arent they raiding over at AA? We asked them and they werent interested. The TWU is over at Continental trying to recruit new dues payers-where the IBT represents mechanics, but thats ok. Why isnt the IBT, an industrial union, trying to complete the job of organizing over at Continental?

I think the raid on UAL is nothing more than the IBT trying to exact revenge upon AMFA because over at SWA the guys booted the IBT in favor of AMFA.

If the IBT really wanted to help mechanics and other airline workers stay in the middle class then they would not restrict themselves to only raiding AMFA, they would go after everyone. They have the means to conduct such a raid, they just dont have the will.

The IBT hasnt done a damn thing about outsourced maintenance at Continental or UPS, what makes anyone think that all of a sudden they will do something about it over at UAL? Both of those companies have been around a long time, have large fleets and contract out all of their overhaul.

It seems that the IBT just wants some more of that RLA guaranteed dues flow and really doesnt care to make any real changes for airline workers, they wish to restore the business unionism status quo to the pre-AMFA days where the unions simply grant concessions without any fight whatsoever.

If the IBT had thrown anything out there that would indicate that they really wish to make real positive changes for airline workers I'd say go for it, but as yet they havent, this is just a move to try and take members away from a non-business union out of revenge-not because they really want to do anything for the members, give them another year to think about it and vote No.

If over the next year they announce that they are going after the whole industry, then jump in. But as it is right now I doubt that you would be better off under the IBT than you would under a union thats democratic and committed to getting mechanics what they deserve. AMFA has a tough fight because ever since they embarrassed the IAM and the AFL-CIO, (organizations run by pseudoexecutives that collect real executive compensation, that have pandered to corporations while the workers of this country suffer), by getting mechanics the biggest increases ever after the IAM said it couldnt be done, they have been targeted by the AFL-CIO and all its business union members. These business unions cant stand the idea of democratic unions that actually fight for their members and dont make unionism a new career choice for a select few at the expense of the workers.

I cant say that AMFA has been a stunning success story for mechanics, sometimes you get a bloody nose when you fight back, but you would likely be worse off when you dont, the fact is that thanks to the increases that AMFA won over at NWA a few years ago we are still better off than other workers who didnt have an organization like AMFA out there putting unions like the IAM, TWU and IBT on notice. Dont forget that after AMFAs 2000 contract at NWA all aircraft mechanics, even those who were in the IAM and TWU with other workgroups at other airlines saw bigger increases than their fellow unionists in other classifications. For instance even after the paycuts in 2003 mechanics were still at a higher hourly rate than they were in 2000, thats not the case for fleet service and other workers who were in the same unions. There is no doubt in my mind that those unions-the TWU, IAM and IBT where warning airline executives that if they wanted to keep the concessiuons train rolling they had better help them put down AMFA so they could get back to business as usual.

Until the IBT takes some real action or at least puts out better rhetoric I would pass on voting for them. Why take a step backwards towards business unionism and away from craft unionism? The fact that they told AA workers they werent interested in organizing them or any other group at AA because they dont want to raid, even wrote a letter to the TWU International stating so, means they arent interested in addressing the problems that airline workers face, despite its setbacks AMFA still is committed to getting all mechanics under one union. I can support either craft or industrila unionism but I cant support business unionism which simply makes your labor its commodity.

Airline ground workers are the most disorganized-"organized" workforce in the world. The TWU represents fleet service workers at one airline and flight attendants at another where some workers are represented by the IAM who represent mechanics somewhere else where the flight attendants are represented by somone else.The fact that nearly every workgroup in this industry is fractured between multiple unions in no discernable pattern is why we have been devasted-we the workers-not the unions who take our money. Until that is addressed, voting for the IBT will do nothing to improve your situation, all it will mean is your money will be going into the pockets of people that you dont vote for.

A mechanic entering this industry could end up in either the TWU, IBT, IAM, AMFA or non-union. He doesnt choose which union represents him, his choice of employer makes that choice. There is no logical explanation as to why this is and how this benifits mechanics. For the TWU, IBT and IAM its just business, the mechanic is a dues payer, a revenue source. As organizations they have ZERO committment to the profession we chose nor are they limited to the industry we work in. They are willing to collect dues from anybody in any industry. Out of the options available to mechanics only AMFA is different.Thats why they were targeted. AMFA still seeks to organize every mechanic under one union instead of having us in a mismash of business unions masquerading as industrial unions.

Should mechanics surrender and go back into these abusive relationships with organizations that will take their money and then blame them for the concessions they bring back? Should mechanics simply go back to being a source of revenue for a business union that could care less about mechanics? If the IBT was really committed to organizing mechanics then why dont they go after all the mechanics out there, especially the non-union? Why would they only raid AMFA- a union that is Democratic, and reject trying to organize mechanics at AA who were denied a representation vote a few years ago after over 9000 mechanics signed cards calling for an election because the NMB allowed the addition of over 3000 people who were either dead, no longer employed by AA, never employed by AA or in another class and craft?

The problems that UAL mechanics face extend beyond UAL. The IBT knows this, the question is what are they planning to do to address this? From what I've seen-nothing. Right now they want to use YOU as a tool to go after AMFA. You are a means to an end that they desire, and end that has nothing for you-nothing else.


Is there a scheduled debate in the works or does the IBT plan to try and win on press releases?

Isnt Griswold the guy from National Lampoons Family Vacation?

 

[tech2101]

Hmm, the IBT is concerned about the safety of the flying public and keeping aircraft mechanics in the middle class. Well then why arent they raiding over at AA? We asked them and they werent interested. The TWU is over at Continental trying to recruit new dues payers-where the IBT represents mechanics, but thats ok. Why isnt the IBT, an industrial union, trying to complete the job of organizing over at Continental?

I think the raid on UAL is nothing more than the IBT trying to exact revenge upon AMFA because over at SWA the guys booted the IBT in favor of AMFA.

If the IBT really wanted to help mechanics and other airline workers stay in the middle class then they would not restrict themselves to only raiding AMFA, they would go after everyone. They have the means to conduct such a raid, they just dont have the will.

The IBT hasnt done a damn thing about outsourced maintenance at Continental or UPS, what makes anyone think that all of a sudden they will do something about it over at UAL? Both of those companies have been around a long time, have large fleets and contract out all of their overhaul.

It seems that the IBT just wants some more of that RLA guaranteed dues flow and really doesnt care to make any real changes for airline workers, they wish to restore the business unionism status quo to the pre-AMFA days where the unions simply grant concessions without any fight whatsoever.

If the IBT had thrown anything out there that would indicate that they really wish to make real positive changes for airline workers I'd say go for it, but as yet they havent, this is just a move to try and take members away from a non-business union out of revenge-not because they really want to do anything for the members, give them another year to think about it and vote No.

If over the next year they announce that they are going after the whole industry, then jump in. But as it is right now I doubt that you would be better off under the IBT than you would under a union thats democratic and committed to getting mechanics what they deserve. AMFA has a tough fight because ever since they embarrassed the IAM and the AFL-CIO, (organizations run by pseudoexecutives that collect real executive compensation, that have pandered to corporations while the workers of this country suffer), by getting mechanics the biggest increases ever after the IAM said it couldnt be done, they have been targeted by the AFL-CIO and all its business union members. These business unions cant stand the idea of democratic unions that actually fight for their members and dont make unionism a new career choice for a select few at the expense of the workers.

I cant say that AMFA has been a stunning success story for mechanics, sometimes you get a bloody nose when you fight back, but you would likely be worse off when you dont, the fact is that thanks to the increases that AMFA won over at NWA a few years ago we are still better off than other workers who didnt have an organization like AMFA out there putting unions like the IAM, TWU and IBT on notice. Dont forget that after AMFAs 2000 contract at NWA all aircraft mechanics, even those who were in the IAM and TWU with other workgroups at other airlines saw bigger increases than their fellow unionists in other classifications. For instance even after the paycuts in 2003 mechanics were still at a higher hourly rate than they were in 2000, thats not the case for fleet service and other workers who were in the same unions. There is no doubt in my mind that those unions-the TWU, IAM and IBT where warning airline executives that if they wanted to keep the concessiuons train rolling they had better help them put down AMFA so they could get back to business as usual.

Until the IBT takes some real action or at least puts out better rhetoric I would pass on voting for them. Why take a step backwards towards business unionism and away from craft unionism? The fact that they told AA workers they werent interested in organizing them or any other group at AA because they dont want to raid, even wrote a letter to the TWU International stating so, means they arent interested in addressing the problems that airline workers face, despite its setbacks AMFA still is committed to getting all mechanics under one union. I can support either craft or industrila unionism but I cant support business unionism which simply makes your labor its commodity.

Airline ground workers are the most disorganized-"organized" workforce in the world. The TWU represents fleet service workers at one airline and flight attendants at another where some workers are represented by the IAM who represent mechanics somewhere else where the flight attendants are represented by somone else.The fact that nearly every workgroup in this industry is fractured between multiple unions in no discernable pattern is why we have been devasted-we the workers-not the unions who take our money. Until that is addressed, voting for the IBT will do nothing to improve your situation, all it will mean is your money will be going into the pockets of people that you dont vote for.

A mechanic entering this industry could end up in either the TWU, IBT, IAM, AMFA or non-union. He doesnt choose which union represents him, his choice of employer makes that choice. There is no logical explanation as to why this is and how this benifits mechanics. For the TWU, IBT and IAM its just business, the mechanic is a dues payer, a revenue source. As organizations they have ZERO committment to the profession we chose nor are they limited to the industry we work in. They are willing to collect dues from anybody in any industry. Out of the options available to mechanics only AMFA is different.Thats why they were targeted. AMFA still seeks to organize every mechanic under one union instead of having us in a mismash of business unions masquerading as industrial unions.

Should mechanics surrender and go back into these abusive relationships with organizations that will take their money and then blame them for the concessions they bring back? Should mechanics simply go back to being a source of revenue for a business union that could care less about mechanics? If the IBT was really committed to organizing mechanics then why dont they go after all the mechanics out there, especially the non-union? Why would they only raid AMFA- a union that is Democratic, and reject trying to organize mechanics at AA who were denied a representation vote a few years ago after over 9000 mechanics signed cards calling for an election because the NMB allowed the addition of over 3000 people who were either dead, no longer employed by AA, never employed by AA or in another class and craft?

The problems that UAL mechanics face extend beyond UAL. The IBT knows this, the question is what are they planning to do to address this? From what I've seen-nothing. Right now they want to use YOU as a tool to go after AMFA. You are a means to an end that they desire, and end that has nothing for you-nothing else.


Is there a scheduled debate in the works or does the IBT plan to try and win on press releases?

Isnt Griswold the guy from National Lampoons Family Vacation?

Undortunately Bob, the weak membership at UAL will end up with no union representation at all due to this. UAL will then have their way with what is left of the Mechanics and Related.

 

[UAL_TECH]

The ‘Lazy ‘U’ AMFA represented M&R is too stupid for self representation. They would rather spend their energies on discrediting their union than taking an active role in making their life better. They need someone like the IBT and/or IAM to tell them what to think.

Foolish ignorant children, so sad, too bad….

JMHO,
B) UT

 

[Bob Owens]

Undortunately Bob, the weak membership at UAL will end up with no union representation at all due to this. UAL will then have their way with what is left of the Mechanics and Related.

I hear that may be due to the fact that there are a lot of guys on recall. Recall is a contractual item, if you go non-union they lose their right to recall. That may be an incentive to vote one way or another. If not and you do end up non-union in a year you could go for a union without their vote being counted.

 

[UAL_TECH]

The ‘Lazy ‘U’ AMFA represented M&R is too stupid for self representation. They would rather spend their energies on discrediting their union than taking an active role in making their life better. They need someone like the IBT and/or IAM to tell them what to think.

Foolish ignorant children, so sad, too bad….

JMHO,
B) UT

Correction, Not Sad, Too Bad.......... :down:
The membership continues to be fractionalized.
They deserve what they are too stupid and lazy not to research and make an informed decision on.
Maybe they will have a 'reflection' in their next job, but not today folks.......

B) UT