2015 Pilot Discussion.

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CactusPilot1 said:
Huh? I guess we wasted a lot of time and money going through the arbitration process.
I thought the purpose of a union was to get a single contract. The intent is to give the employees leverage with the company and not used as a 2x4 on the dues paying members. If other unions used Usapian logic it would spell the end of unionism.
You mean APA logic by sticking it to the TWA pilots and getting M-B to strip the pilots from determining seniority?

This pilot group is so fractionalized and factionalized that nobody could put it back together again. The West pilots are going to vote yes because they just want to get out of PHX and support management over all else. There are enough East and APA pilots to fill the gap so the last bullet in the brain of pilot unions isn't wasted by management.

It will be nice to see the this end for APA and let us just get on with our careers.

Is this really a surprise to anyone?
 
PullUp said:
Ahem, look around. Unionism IS dead. Where unions still exist, they are marginalized to the extent that they are nothing but contract bargaining representatives, with 'bargaining' de-emphasized.
So called 'Right to Work' laws have killed unions and crippled wages and benefits for middle class jobs, turning them into lower-middle class or part-time positions.
Our 'union' right to self help (strike) has been taken away by PEB's. 
Companies dictate to the unions and use bankruptcy laws to slash and burn legal contracts.
Our country is poorer for this turn of events. The pension is a thing of the past, paid health care is all but eradicated, and vacation time goes unused nationwide. Wages are stagnant or worse, and the next generation of workers is eager to take your job and do it for less.
Do we belong to a union, or a professional association? Do most of our ex-military/conservative pilots vote republican or democrat?
In order to have unionism, the membership must be onboard and supportive. I have not seen that characteristic demonstrated in any union I've been associated with, whether it was ALPA, USAPA, or APA.
I find myself in agreement with much of what you wrote. I'll add in today's self-absorbed society with their eyes trained on their iPhones would they notice a picket sign? Would they care if they noticed? I doubt it.
 
nycbusdriver said:
Let's get real, here.  There is definitely more to learn/know/work to fly internationally, versus domestically.  However, if one is trained in international procedures, it does in no way preclude his/her qualifications/abilities to fly domestically.  And international procedures are a bit different and bit more burdensome, but not outside the ability of anyone domestically qualified to perform.
 
The Green Book requirement for this division is borderline "union featherbedding."  LUS has functioned amazingly well without the division for years now.  It's yet another solution in search of a problem.
Irrelevant points.

It is IN the current contract and Doug needs to buy it OUT.

No excuses. :)
 
Phoenix said:
Irrelevant points.

It is IN the current contract and Doug needs to buy it OUT.

No excuses. :)
 
 
Irrelevant?  Maybe.  But so is the latest "deal breaker" irrelevant.
 
But then, the current contract (AWE excepted...about 15% of the pilot group) does not have the long rig that APA demanded last week from the company.  Now, we hear from the indignant pilot group that it's a "deal breaker."  Huh?  
 
If the APA wants it, then the APA has to buy it out according to the agreement on the arbitration.  
 
Is everyone ready to bend over for the big "deal breaker" continuing in the new contract?  Or, are all those indignant chest-pounder willing to take an hourly cut to pay for it?  
 
That's what we are looking at here.
 
Why I’m a No:



Let me start with the BOD acted in haste disregarding well-written guidelines on how we are to behave during times like these. Your Miami reps argued against violating our own rules yet we did not carry the day. I will not be party to such ill-advised governance and cannot support a concessionary contract, especially in these, the best of times. Make no mistake; you are paying for your raise with the seven concessions management is insisting on getting from your Green Book. I’ve heard the argument that Delta has ‘Promptly Available’ and a merged International/Domestic Divisions and…Delta also has profit sharing, a Minimum Calendar Day, and a management team that cares about it’s pilots. There is no “new culture” here at American. It’s the same old same old, I’m sorry to say. The sooner we accept that and exert our collective will, the sooner we will be rewarded for our resolve. To think Parker and Kirby were just going to hand you a “reasonable” new contract was naïve and has proven to be incorrect. The good news is it’s not too late.



If you study what this management team has done with other groups, you’d expect a sweetener sometime in the next week or two. You would also expect a ramped up company comm campaign telling you that negotiations are over. They aren’t. Like many times in our history, it’s now up to the membership to provide the final input. Vote yes and accept the money and the loss of more of your contract. Who really believes we’ll get ‘em next time? As others have said, ask yourself ‘If not now, when?’ To be clear, there is always risk involved when you aspire to something great. The risk is your retro, and ultimately, having to live with the MTA (current contract) and take the Delta/United average next January? A Year ago, 90% of us accepted that and looked forward to 2016. I believe if this pilot group will stand up and say either we get our proposal from December 17th or we’ll hand the arbitrator our Green Book and say ‘No changes’, that we will get a lot more than they’re offering now. Our proposal already got us more pay and we can get it all, with an energized and focused pilot group. Management knows full well that between not getting mixed divisions, HBT, and the rest of their items and having a pissed off pilot group, that they will come out behind where APA’s proposal would have them.

Most of the vocal pundits are the same guys who supported LBFO I. They didn’t trust the membership then, and they don’t trust you now. I trust you! I believe that as you learn more about the long-term cost to your QOL and pocket book, you will awaken and take control.



I have read literally thousands of emails, sound offs, and text messages. Not everyone see’s it like I do. I get that and respect your right to your opinion. Just understand that I never ever pretended to be a guy who would vote yes for a concessionary contract. I am determined not to leave the pilots of American Airlines in worse shape than when I was elected. I will always try my best to be the man you elected. Please review APA’s 12/17/2014 proposal to AAG. Study it. Then let your BOD know if that’s your bottom line. It’s Thomas’ and mine and it’s one I’d be proud to sign.



This is the best base in the airline. I am so proud to represent you. You are admired around the boardroom. I’ve heard many times from multiple people that if they had a base like Miami, they would take a tougher stand. Thomas and I are damn proud of you and I thank you for your support and guidance. Now, get to work and help us get a better contract!



In Unity,



Tom Gallagher
 
Just Another Cost Unit
posted on January 05, 2015 22:50

JUST ANOTHER COST UNIT
Mssrs. Parker and Kirby have defined the New Culture at the New American. I voted against LBFO3 (JCBA). If you have any self respect and are tired of getting kicked in the crotch by the same old management types, VOTE NO. If you like the offer, VOTE YES.

In Unity,

MIke

Posted in: New York









LGA Vice JCBA Update 5 Jan
posted on January 05, 2015 11:56

Board Approves Membership Ratification of JCBA:



LGA pilots, by now you have learned the outcome of the vote by the APA Board of Directors concerning the JCBA. While a large number of LGA pilots felt the actions of the Board to accept Management's JCBA proposal for membership ratification was the correct decision to make, it's important to say that many of you felt the Board should have pushed the process to arbitration. Over the last two months I explained why I believe a consensual and mutually agreed to negotiated contract would benefit both the pilots of APA and Mr. Parker. Considering the bright outlook our new Management frequently painted toward the importance of having support from both pilot groups during the restructuring of our airline, as the record profits continue to roll in each day, we shouldn't have to work very hard to enjoy the new culture that Mr. Parker had promised when APA gave him the keys to the airline. At this point, not only is that new culture allusive but for the most part it is nonexistent. Two weeks ago we presented a proposal to Mr. Parker and Mr. Kirby that we felt was reasonable and fit both the monetary and operational needs of the company – providing that mutually acceptable agreement we were all looking for. Mr. Kirby sent his response – “No” to all of our proposed items but here is another 4% in pay for the pilots and the rest of the employees. Obviously with record profits, money is not an issue. They are willing to pay us off but they want contractual changes for the money.



Unified Board:



Last Friday the BOD met again to discuss our current situation. We all know there had been a division within the BOD in our opinions on how best to move forward on behalf of the pilots of APA. With the best interests of the APA pilots in mind we put our differences aside and worked to craft a proposal that addressed a key issue important to all of our pilots – not flying 3 day trips for 11 hours of pay. We pulled a contractual piece from the current US Airways West contract concerning their “long-rate rig”. This requirement stipulates that any sequence with a layover of 24 hours or greater, that layover time will be treated as a duty period for pay and credit purposes worth up to 5:15 hours thereby giving them an average of 5:15 hours per day. We felt it was a simple solution to a problem that has been plaguing our pilots for too long. The company should have been familiar with the language. It already exists in the West contract, so the implementation would not require “reinventing the wheel”. The only amendment we made to the existing language was to reduce the layover time from 24 hours to 22 hours, capturing approximately 500 more sequences per year. By a 22-0 vote we sent this proposal to Mr. Kirby on Friday night. That night and on Saturday morning our negotiating team and Subject Matter Experts engaged with the company to review the proposal and tried to craft the exact language to capture our proposal and ensure both sides understood its impact. By late afternoon the company declined our proposal sighting the cost as the reason for their rejection. Our Economic, Financial and Analysis team put the value of the proposal at approximately $55 million per year verse the company’s estimate of approximately $80 million per year. Mr. Kirby had just told us last month that the JCBA outcome is not all about valuations. I guess that it true until it actually is about the valuations.



Why Did I Vote Yes:



Do not take this an endorsement of the proposal. I believe my job, as your representative, is to work on behalf of all the members of APA and be the voice for LGA. After communicating the positives and negatives of each path via our base blasts, teleconferences, a Domicile meeting and countless email, text and telephone conversations, the reality was it became apparent to me that the majority of those I spoke with from the LGA Domicile wanted to either “vote for” the last offer or at least wanted the proposal passed so they could “vote on” the offer. My job is to represent all the members. Furthermore, and most important, I believe had the Board rejected the offer the anger of the pilots would have been misdirected at the BOD and caused a greater erosion of any unity we would need to create and show the company our resolve. This would harm our ability to use our strength and make the appropriate changes to a negotiated outcome prior to an arbitrator’s decision. If the membership turns down the proposal it speaks volumes to indicate a greater level of dissatisfaction and a true indication that the “New Culture” doesn’t exist.



In just the last two days I have seen that process begin. The membership knows our proposal to the company was reasonable, fits our operational needs, and is not a great expense to the company; especially during these times of record profits! Not only is it a reasonable offer, it is in line with Industry Standard, and I repeat, it is currently part of the US Airways West contract. Our total pilot costs would still be below Delta and United! The swell of anger, mistrust, and disappointment should be conveyed to your Chief Pilots. Let them know how you feel Mr. Parker and Mr. Kirby value the pilots of the world’s largest airline. Parker and Kirby have the chance to make this great, but like past management, they are being short sighted and failing to realize the value of an engaged and enthusiastic pilot group!



As always, the strength comes from the members!



What’s Next:



I encourage you to read and review everything available about the two options in front of you. As pilots it is in our DNA to maintain control, analyze the situation, and then take appropriate action. Your Domicile Reps will provide all the material you need to make an informed and qualified decision. We will accomplish this through any of the following: Domicile meetings, Family Awareness meetings, Teleconferences or making ourselves available in operations. We both want to make it clear – this will not be an LBFO sales job!We will make sure you understand that arbitration will not give management the contractual changes they want and need, as well as the monetary risks associated with rejection. Think hard about the changes contained in management’s proposal and how they will affect you over the next 5+ years as AA implements PBS, a new reserve system, and a new TTOT system. Discuss these options with your fellow pilots, reach out to Mike or myself and take the time to make sure you understand what you are signing. There is a lot to consider. I know the money is attractive. I was hired in 1992 and have lived through some very difficult times including the “decade of despair.” Remember; it is not always just about money.



This is your union, your contract, your future, and your choice!





1. Kirby’s Proposal:



1. Management responded to our proposal by increasing their pay offer in-line with our “pay option #1” – adding more than $600 million to the value of the package on the table (a 50% increase).

2. Extend the expiration date to 1 January 2020

3. Use of local “acclimated” time to be used to determine FAR 117 duty day limits (“acclimation” would require a minimum 36-hour layover)

4. Elimination of international and domestic divisions

5. Tighten reporting requirements for short call reserve pilots

6. No “Calendar Day” Duty Rig – Maintain FDP

7. No adjustment to A-321 pay

8. No repair to our Long Term Disability program

9. Cadillac Tax adjustment in 2018 effecting our Medical Benefits

10. 2 years of LOS for our returned furloughed pilots

11. Increase allowable limits on withholding pilots from a new bid status to 1 year

12. Allow middle-of-the night recurrent landing simulator sessions



Accepting their offer would also lock in a list of minor improvements agreed to over the last few months, many of which are necessary for the merger of the two companies anyway





2. Arbitration:



What does the arbitration path look like and what can happen?

The arbitration jurisdiction set up by the MOU explicitly limits the arbitrators to crafting provisions “consistent with” our current contract. Management’s list of demands all constitute changes to our current contract, which by definition, means that they are “inconsistent” with our current contract and outside of the arbitrator’s jurisdiction to grant. Just as we witnessed with the Flight Attendant arbitration process when they asked the arbitrators to add items to the process, they were denied.

Furthermore and just as important, the arbitration panel is explicitly charged with crafting the implementation schedule of integrating Legacy USAir pilots into our current contract. Given management’s reluctance and inability to implement and integrate pilots under a contract signed 2 years ago, it is my belief that an arbitration award setting specific timelines is something management will seek to avoid.



No one can predict with certainty whether management’s inability to obtain what they want through arbitration, the desire to avoid specific implementation requirements, combined with the other factors inherent in a continued confrontation will be enough to compel them to address our concerns. I think our goals and expectations are reasonable, justifiable, and achievable. However, the only way we can succeed with this path is if the membership rejects management’s “offer” and declares with a unified voice that they are committed to achieving the goals we established at the beginning of this process. This is the time where the membership will have to choose for themselves between accepting a proposal that does not meet all their expectations, or to reject the proposal and take the risks needed to improve the deal.



Big pay rates mean little if you are on the road an unable to enjoy them.



Stand by for the dates, times and venues. We will provide you the information you need to make a decision for your future.



In Unity,



R Scott





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From: CA William Gary DCA Domicile Chairman <[email protected]>

Date: January 5, 2015 at 12:00:04 EST

Subject: My Apology

Reply-To: CA William Gary DCA Domicile Chairman <[email protected]>


Fellow Washington Pilots,

Carl was right. I was wrong. I apologize.

I told you that Mr. Parker and Mr. Kirby were different, that we could trust them, that the culture would change and that we’d enjoy a better relationship with new management.


While the merger has brought us a stronger and more viable airline that will survive any future turmoil, I was completely wrong about the nature of our new management team and the culture change that I hoped would result.


We’ve made every effort to negotiate improvements to your contract. No significant progress has been made since the company made their “work from our term sheet” offers in mid Nov.


In an effort to meet the company’s deadline and in an effort to capture the retroactive pay we negotiated in exchange for giving management an extension of the deadline for JCBA talks, we reduced our asks to one item, a fix to long layovers that pay little and result in flying 20+ days a month. The company refused this simple and relatively low cost fix (called the “long rate rig”) that is already in the America West contract.

The company rejected it.


DO NOT ASSSUME that because the BOD sends a TA to you for a vote that it is an endorsement of the TA.

There are several different reasons for sending a TA to you for a vote, including the APA ‘s governing documents. I anticipate that each BOD member will explain his reasons for voting in the coming days.


Unfortunately, the company failed to be prepared to meet their own Jan 3. deadline and we could not get the contract finalized last week. The last piece of the contract to be negotiated is the elimination of the Intl/Dom fence. Although it is management’s demand, they had no proposal prepared. Management apparently had put no thought into how complex such a change would be and how many areas of the contract would be affected. Their timeline for writing contract language and approval of the language was simply unrealistic.


We now expect to have the contract complete this Wednesday.

The BOD will return to DFW on Tuesday evening. Assuming the contract language is final and there are no problems with it, we expect to begin mailing out PINs for electronic voting soon. We expect to have domicile meetings, road shows and possibly telephone town hall conference calls prior to and during the voting period.


Fly Safe

Bill

.


__,_._,___
 
Metroyet said:
You stayed on LOA93 for an extra 5 YEARS by choice. Let's not forget that little detail.
As you have chosen to stay locked in PHX taking money from your family for a lost cause, meanwhile we are putting new hires in wide body's and one year captains and moving up the ladder very fast, not to mention all the lost pay you have chosen to give up by not joining in the growth, BY CHOICE. Let's not forget that little detail!
 
CactusPilot1 said:
Huh? I guess we wasted a lot of time and money going through the arbitration process.
I thought the purpose of a union was to get a single contract. The intent is to give the employees leverage with the company and not used as a 2x4 on the dues paying members. If other unions used Usapian logic it would spell the end of unionism.

Yet other unions now use three arbitrators in SLI; you ever wonder why that is the case there genius?
 
Congratulations to the company management team for cleaning the APA's clock big time. The APA was no match at all for them, it was over before it even started thanks to those that voted for the MOU.
 
luvthe9 said:
Congratulations to the company management team for cleaning the APA's clock big time. The APA was no match at all for them, it was over before it even started thanks to those that voted for the MOU.
The APA completely misjudged Doug Parker. Parker, is the hands down best labor handler in the industry. The best numbers man. The best airline CEO from the perspective of Wall St.

Parker has assured himself a massive advantage over other legacy carriers. Delta wants Parker to give profit sharing because they ran the numbers. Parker has at least a 1 cent per seat mile advantage going for him over Delta, and probably every other airline out there. Parker will be able to make Delta regret some of their decisions going forward. Delta will not be able to transgress into Parker's area of ops without a bloody nose. AAL will be the low cost legacy for years to come. APA helped make it happen, and not by choice.
 
Claxon said:
The APA completely misjudged Doug Parker. Parker, is the hands down best labor handler in the industry. The best numbers man. The best airline CEO from the perspective of Wall St.
Parker has assured himself a massive advantage over other legacy carriers. Delta wants Parker to give profit sharing because they ran the numbers. Parker has at least a 1 cent per seat mile advantage going for him over Delta, and probably every other airline out there. Parker will be able to make Delta regret some of their decisions going forward. Delta will not be able to transgress into Parker's area of ops without a bloody nose. AAL will be the low cost legacy for years to come. APA helped make it happen, and not by choice.
A lot of credit for our downfall goes to the COMPASS CORRECTION GROUP for putting Hummel in. Well I guess will be at the bottom for the next six plus years or so. We had such high hopes for the APA.
 
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