Alright Airtran, you can follow Delta's lead, as usual...

[Kev3188]

Can you honestly say your contract is comparable to UAL's and better than AA's in scope with a straight face???

Yes I can.

Have you looked at either? Do you know what UAL was asking for vs. what the IAM was able to secure? It's quite similar to NW's (both were "negotiated" under the 1113 process).


Our CBA saved many jobs vs. what NWA wanted. What at DL offers the same?

You know none of what DL is currently rolling out matters without in being in a binding agreement, right? That they can take it right back (as they've done before) on a whim? Without scope, none of it'll matter to those whose stations start getting closed. On top of that, I still haven't seen where it says that they can't change their terms at any time without mutual consent. Maybe you can show me where to find that...

Have you not wondered why they're all of the sudden offering raises, changing the PPT program, and revamping the medical? By the way, weren't you guys supposed to get those raises some time ago? What was the hold up?

Why did Bastain basically admit at the town hall in DTW that we have a better benefits package than DL'ers?

Not that this has anything to do with the Thread Title, like anyone else is following, but, what is the current ramp Delta top out pay? Just to compare the 'Playing field'... Now also, consider other perks, such as Shift differential, etc... Let's be fair in our answers, please. Not that I have a 'Dog in this Hunt', but equal and correct info for all, should be applied. Not Grandstanding where the new and ALL Powerful Almighty Delta flies! Flying 'Business Elite' does not necesarily qualify someone as a trip 7 Pile it. It may be hard to work some of the 'Bells & Whistles from that seat. Then again, some people can do 'Anything' on the Internet!

What would you like to know?

Here's some that I think are important. Let me know if you want something else.

Scope:

NW: We have very specific scope determining what stations remain staffed. Including Cargo.

DL: None.

Raises:

NW: Step increases at specified times & specified amounts (we're getting a raise on Jan 1st as well).

DL: Steps specified, but nothing guaranteeing amounts.

By the way, despite what Anderson says there is NOTHING in any NW CBA that says we can't get one as well. The scales listed are the MINIMUM rates to be paid, not the max.

On top of that, anyone hired before '06 tops at in 5 years at NW, vs. 11 at DL. That means that not only does someone at NW top out faster comparatively, but that they're enjoying that top wage for several years before the DL'er catches up.


Part time ratios:

NW: 25% cap in the hubs, 50% in line stations.

DL: No cap

Ready reserve program:

NW: Doesn't exist

DL: Exists, with most "regular" vacated positions being backfilled with it.

Sick/OJI accruals:

NW: Accrue 8 hours/monthly for both. No limit on usage.

DL: 7 days PPT yearly. Apparently Rob Knight says you can "bank" 1200 for long term issues. No idea on what that entails. I personally have 1700 hours; what happens to the other 500?

Vacation:

NW: Capped at 6 weeks

DL: Capped out at 4

Despite what Delta777 says, this is a big deal. QOL issues aside, it means someone at DL has to work 2 more weeks a year to make what someone at NW does...

Medical costs:

NW: Fixed rates, with a max of 8% increase yearly (no increase for 2009).

DL: No guarantee on rates (no increase for '09).

NW: Out of pocket max: 2,000

DL: Lowest one I could find was 4,500 (correct me if I'm wrong, Delta777)


Pension(s):

NW: Company one frozen. IAM plan on top of that. 401(K) offered. No SS offset

DL: Company one frozen. 401(k) offered. SS offset on pension.

 

[citrus jock]

I would have loved to have responded sooner. However, i just got back from PVG and PEK via the mighty 777 (BusinessElite going and coming of course)after having spent 6 glorious days overseas(those are the city codes for Shanghai and Beijing for those who don't have the pleasure of working for a truly Global airline and think international means Cancun ) I know, its a burden that we fly so many exotic and interesting places, sometimes i get a migraine when i'm contemplating my next big international trip. Where to next? Prague, Dubai, Tel Aviv, or perhaps South Africa? The choices seem endless.

You "would have loved to have responded sooner", but you can't think of anything to say, except, "We're bigger, we're bigger, we're bigger, blah, blah, blah". Hell, I could have thought of that much on a GPT turn; that's all you could come up with during all that time to Asia? And, your company's decision to focus on int'l flying while turning more and more domestic flying over to RJs is insuring the success of my company. So, I guess we're both happy.

That still leaves you with what you had before you left: disproven arguments and "we're bigger, we're bigger, blah, blah, blah".

 

[FLYHAPPY]

B6 already tried moving into the fortress hub at ATL and was handed their collective rear ends. As for Southwest, they just suffered their first non-profitable quarter in 17 years. Safe to say they'd rather not pick a fight with the World's largest, most powerful mega-airline right now.

this is grammatically incorrect as well.

WAS is singular THEIR is plural

I'm embarrassed at the way you represent DAL on this forum, outside of your grammar felonies.

 

[delta777]

Delta is committed to reaching industry standard pay by the end of 2010, and continues to provide pay increases at regular intervals to reach this commitment. Next increase will occur on 1/1/09 of 3% to all steps on the scale. In some cases, increases will be higher than 3%.

NWA-Contractual increases of 1.5% on 1/1/2009 and 1/1/2010. The sum of these increases will not reach industry standard.

DAL-As of 1/1/09, monthly base pay for top of scale equals $3354 and is reached after 10.5 years for all workgroups.
Delta employees do not pay union dues.

NWA-As of 1/1/09, monthly base pay for top of scale by workgroup equals:
- ACS and Cargo ramp top of scale is $3,151 (after subtracting average $43 monthly union dues) which is reached between 5-10 years based on hire date

NWA- ACS and Cargo above-wing top of scale is $3,217 (after subtracting average $43 monthly union dues) which is reached after 10 years
NWA- RES top of scale is $3,123 (after subtracting average $43 monthly union dues) which is reached after 10 years

DAL-Additional shift differential of $0.45-$0.52 per hour.
NWA-No shift differential.

DAL-15% cash payout on profits of first $1.5 billion and 20% on profits over $1.5 billion. Starting 1/1/09, 20% profit sharing threshold will change to $2.5 billion of combined company profit.

NWA-10% cash payout if pretax margin is less than or equal to 10% and 15% payout on overage if greater than 10%.
DAL-Profit sharing begins at first dollar of profit.

NWA-Profit sharing begins after the first $1 million of profit.
DAL-2007 actual payout equaled 5.5% of pay.
NWA-2007 actual payout equaled 3.77% of pay.

DL SHARED REWARDS AND NW PERFORMANCE INCENTIVES

DAL-The program provides monthly incentive payouts based on performance in three operational areas. Goals can be achieved either through relative performance to the industry or by meeting or exceeding internal goals.

NWA-The program provides quarterly incentive payouts. Goals can be achieved through operational performance relative to network carriers and internal divisional goals.
Payout of $25 for meeting or exceeding one goal, $75 for two and $100 for three.
Payout based on 0.5%, 1% or 1.25% of pay. Employees with higher salaries receive higher payouts.

DAL-2007 payout of $800 for all employees.
NWA-2007 payout averaged $471 for ACS and Cargo Ramp agents and $397 for Reservations Sales and ACS and Cargo Above Wing Agents.

RETIREMENT – 401(k) AND PENSION
Delta
Northwest
Delta sponsors a Defined Benefit Pension Plan that was frozen during bankruptcy, but not terminated. This Plan will be unaffected by the merger.

Northwest sponsors a Defined Benefit Pension Plan that was frozen during bankruptcy, but not terminated. This Plan will be unaffected by the merger.

For on-going retirement benefits, Delta sponsors a Defined Contribution Plan, to which Delta contributes up to 7% of eligible earnings. Delta contributes an amount equal to 2% of eligible earnings to your 401k account whether or not you contribute any money to the Plan. In addition, Delta matches another 5% of your contributions dollar for dollar.

For on-going retirement benefits, Northwest makes contributions that average 5% of all participants' pay into the IAM National Pension Plan, whether or not you contribute any money to the Plan. The IAM National Pension Plan is a Defined Benefit Pension Plan. Employees can contribute separately to a 401(k) plan, but there are no separate employer contributions or matching contributions to this Plan.

DAL-Investments are managed by employee at Fidelity, with a full range of investment options, in addition to Financial Engines investment advice services being added in January 2009.

NWA-Managed by the IAM National Pension Plan Trustees.

ACTIVE MEDICAL

DAL-Employees contribute 22% of the cost on average. The dollar amount of premiums has not increased for the past 4 years.

NWA-Employees contribute 15% of the cost, with an 8% annual cap on the dollar amount of premium increases.

DAL-Account based plan design with 4 coverage options. Most popular medical option includes a company-provided account that pays the first $500 of medical cost. Unused account funds are rolled over from year to year.

NWA-PPO Plan design with 1 choice for coverage.

DAL-Under all plans, in-network preventive care covered at 100% with no deductibles or copays.

NWA-In-network preventive care is covered at 90% with no deductible or copays. Employee is responsible for the remaining 10% cost.

DAL-All options administered by UnitedHealthcare.
NWA-Administered by Blue Cross Blue Shield.

HOLIDAYS

DAL-6 premium and 4 floating holidays per year.
NWA-4 premium and 3 floating holidays per year.

VACATION

DAL-Maximum of 25 days of vacation per year for employees hired prior to March 31, 1988. For others, maximum of 20 vacation days per year after 11 years of service.

NWA-Maximum of 30 days of vacation per year after 29 years of service. NW employees reach 20 days of vacation after 16 years of service.

DAL-No rollover or banking of vacation

NWA-Unused vacation can be rolled over and banked.
DAL-Vacation accrued in current year becomes earned and gets used in the following year (get all your vacation at one time).

NWA-Vacation is earned currently (earn as you go).

PAID PERSONAL TIME & CERTIFIED TIME AND NW SICK TIME

DAL-Maximum of 56 hours of Paid Personal Time (PPT) earned per year.
NWA-Maximum of 96 hours of sick time earned per year.
DAL-All hours used paid at 100% of pay.
NWA-First 7 continuous and consecutive workdays of each occurrence are paid at 75% of pay.
Employees have the flexibility to use PPT for any reason, not just personal illness.
Can only be used for personal illness.

DAL-Employees can choose to receive a cash payout of unused PPT. In 2008, the average PPT payout was $650 per employee. In addition, employees receive a cash payout of unused time when you leave the company.
NWA-Employees do not receive a cash payout of unused time.

DAL-As an alternative to cash payout, employees can choose to rollover unused PPT up to 112 hrs maximum. Once that maximum is reached, employees can then choose to rollover unused PPT to build Certified Time banks up to 1200 hours for 100% pay protection on full-time absences lasting over 7 calendar days when certified as disabled. Average Certified Time balance of 448 hours for ACS and 380 hours for RES.

NWA-Unlimited bank with average balance of 535 hours.

SHORT TERM DISABILITY (STD)

DAL-60% plan available for employee purchase. STD Benefits are paid tax-free.
NWA-Not available. Employees who do not have banked time have no pay protection during their absence.

DAL-Provides benefits for work related and non-work related claims.
NWA-STD benefit not available for any claims.

DAL-While on approved leave, employees continue their eligibility for active employee core benefits (i.e. Medical, Basic Life, etc.)

NWA-Treated as COBRA event as soon as employee exhausts paid sick time and OIL time. COBRA rates based on 102% of the cost or roughly 6 times higher than the active employee contribution of 15% of cost.

LONG TERM DISABILITY (LTD)

DAL-50% benefit (up to 60% with Buy-up).
NWA-66.67% benefit.


DAL-Employees eligible for coverage at date of hire.
NWA-Employees eligible for coverage after 12 months of employment.

DAL-Company pays 100% of the premium cost. In addition, employees can decide to enroll in additional coverage to receive 60% pay protection.

NWA-Employee pays 50% of the premium cost and enrollment is mandatory.
DAL-Provides benefits for work related and non-work related claims.
NWA-Provides benefits for work related and non-work related claims.

DAL-6 months “own occupationâ€￾ definition to continue qualifying for benefits.
NWA-36 months “own occupationâ€￾ definition to continue qualifying for benefits.

DAL-Employee uses PPT, Certified Time and STD for coverage until LTD begins after 180 day waiting period.
NWA-Employee uses sick time for coverage until LTD begins after 90 day waiting period.

 

[QA4Jet-A]

Thanks Kev !

 

[QA4Jet-A]

Thanks Delta 777 for the info.

 

[Kev3188]

Way to cut-and-paste off of DeltaNet....

Can you just show me where that's all in a legally binding agreement? You know, the part that ensures it can't all be changed on a whim?

Also, I looked at the same sheet; where's the scope clause? None of that'll matter when people's stations close.

Where's the cap on PT?

Why didn't they post they monthly premiums for insurance? The out of pocket maximums?

For those that have more than 1200 hours sick/oji accrued, what happens to the difference?

401k match is great, but what's stopping them from discontinuing that?

I noticed it says that DL "doesn't subsidize" retiree medical. What happens to those folks that worked their whole lives for the Widget? Are they just cast off? I'm truly curious; help me out here.

Lastly, with the announced pull down in capacity, there's bound to be some layoffs; where on DeltaNet can I find the employee rights regarding exercise of seniority/recall rights? They don't seem to exist. Maybe you can point me in the right direction...

 

[citrus jock]

I noticed it says that DL "doesn't subsidize" retiree medical. What happens to those folks that worked their whole lives for the Widget? Are they just cast off? I'm truly curious; help me out here.


[/quote]
Since you'll probably get the "rah rah" answer from 777, here's my .02 worth: my dad flew for Delta for 31 years, retiring in 2003. He said that after Delta's BK, what the PBGC was going to give him left him owing Delta $ if he wanted to keep his insurance. He did take the lump sum, and he does have insurance through the military, so he is grateful knowing that many others didn't fare so well. At least DL mgmt. (the self-proclaimed "top talent" that needed to be retained, but subsequently and quickly, left) and the BK lawyers got theirs. :down:

 

[delta777]

I know, it's not quite as nice as the cut-and-paste job you pulled from the IAM website, but its much more penetrating than the tired old IAM garbage you've been regurgitating for the past several months.

I thought my info. was much more useful to the average joe, also. At least i gave people facts from both sides so they could compare and contrast for themselves. Not simply some hot air off the IAM's website with no comparison to DAL employees overall benefits. Why don't we let the employees decide which benefits package looks better, rather than being told by some wanna-be shop steward.

Furthermore, we could go on and on with your tiresome inuendo about what might happen to DAL employee benefits in the future in some far away galaxy because its not contractually agreed to, however, these are the facts as we know them for the here and now. Like it or not.

You might not mind being the 10th lowest paid airline employee and letting the IAM take $43 from you every month just for the honor, i, however, would rather not take another paycut just so i can be called an IAM member.

 

[Kev3188]

I know, it's not quite as nice as the cut-and-paste job you pulled from the IAM website, but its much more penetrating than the tired old IAM garbage you've been regurgitating for the past several months.

Actually, I wrote it myself. The data was used from both my CBA and DeltaNet.

Why didn't you answer the questions I asked in my last post?

I thought my info. was much more useful to the average joe, also.

So was mine. What's more relevant than being employed?

At least i gave people facts from both sides so they could compare and contrast for themselves. Not simply some hot air off the IAM's website with no comparison to DAL employees overall benefits. Why don't we let the employees decide which benefits package looks better, rather than being told by some wanna-be shop steward.

See above. I pulled from both sides.

You sure seem angry for a guy that's just been flitting all over the globe. What's with the personal attacks, anyway? All they do is make you sound desperate.

Furthermore, we could go on and on with your tiresome inuendo about what might happen to DAL employee benefits in the future in some far away galaxy because its not contractually agreed to, however, these are the facts as we know them for the here and now. Like it or not.

Stop right there.

This is not innuendo, and these proposed items are not "facts." They are proposed terms that can be altered/amended at anytime. The concerns I've listed are very real for all of us. Just because you refuse to see that doesn't mean that they're not.

So, again, I ask; what's to stop DL from changing all of these terms on a whim?

What's to stop them from outsourcing stations, like they've done in the past?

 

[tech2101]

Actually, I wrote it myself. The data was used from both my CBA and DeltaNet.

Why didn't you answer the questions I asked in my last post?



So was mine. What's more relevant than being employed?




See above. I pulled from both sides.

You sure seem angry for a guy that's just been flitting all over the globe. What's with the personal attacks, anyway? All they do is make you sound desperate.




Stop right there.

This is not innuendo, and these proposed items are not "facts." They are proposed terms that can be altered/amended at anytime. The concerns I've listed are very real for all of us. Just because you refuse to see that doesn't mean that they're not.

So, again, I ask; what's to stop DL from changing all of these terms on a whim?

What's to stop them from outsourcing stations, like they've done in the past?

You are wasting your time Kev.

It is obvious this guy thinks that because Delta says it is so (on Delta net...whatever that is) it is written in stone.

When the hammer falls, he can hold up that sheet and say..."but you said you would do this"

Good luck with that. He will get the 'times have changed speech'.

I am sure Richard Anderson will take care of him personally. Hopefully he does not get his notice when on vacation in some exotic locale. :

 

[Kev3188]

You are wasting your time Kev.

It is obvious this guy thinks that because Delta says it is so (on Delta net...whatever that is) it is written in stone.

When the hammer falls, he can hold up that sheet and say..."but you said you would do this"

Good luck with that. He will get the 'times have changed speech'.

I am sure Richard Anderson will take care of him personally. Hopefully he does not get his notice when on vacation in some exotic locale. :

Sad but true, amigo...

 

[delta777]

Sad but true, amigo...

No need to feel sad for me. I'm quite content with my direct-relationship with the company. I certainly have no need for a union mouthpiece to do the talking for me. If i have something to say, i'll man-up and say it myself, thank you very much. And, judging by my hourly pay versus NWA employees, i'd say we've made the right decision in not poisoning our unique culture with union blowhards.

 

[QA4Jet-A]

No need to feel sad for me. I'm quite content with my direct-relationship with the company. I certainly have no need for a union mouthpiece to do the talking for me. If i have something to say, i'll man-up and say it myself, thank you very much. And, judging by my hourly pay versus NWA employees, i'd say we've made the right decision in not poisoning our unique culture with union blowhards.

Very interesting response there. Out of curiosity, just what is your task at the Almighty Mammoth Delta Air Lines? Certainly, you are not a Pilot. A Ramp Agent would be out of the question as well. I doubt you are a CS Agent, although at times you speak like one. Dispatch & MOC seem a bit out of your reach as well, so is it Cargo, or are you in one of those far-reaching places, like India, where you do the Reservations thingie? GSE and Catering are close behind! I love your line about your 'direct-relationship with the company'. Is that a 'Speed Dial' number or do you just call Richard on his cell? Your confidence level is 'striking', and your 'wisdom' seems, at times, almost preponderate. The 'Kicker' in all of this is, I'm not buying it. You can slam me for a typo, Go ahead, give it your best shot! None of us are perfect, although you'll, no doubt, think different! h34r:

 

[Kev3188]

No need to feel sad for me. I'm quite content with my direct-relationship with the company. I certainly have no need for a union mouthpiece to do the talking for me. If i have something to say, i'll man-up and say it myself, thank you very much. And, judging by my hourly pay versus NWA employees, i'd say we've made the right decision in not poisoning our unique culture with union blowhards.

So let me make sure I'm clear on this:

You've negotiated your own pay/benefits package?

You really think that there'll never be any furloughs, and if there are, they won't affect you?

You think the SS offset of your pension is okay?

You're cool with having two weeks less vacation a year than your NW counterparts?

You honestly think that DL management will never change their policies regarding pay/benefits? Before you answer, remember that there's nothing stopping them from doing so....

Tell you what; when the time comes that they do change the terms (and they will), let me know; I'd love to fly to wherever you are and watch you "man up."

I'm sure you'll get far...