Amended Pass Travel Policy

[ChrisUS]

Look at it from the company's point of view, if a retiree gets on a flight before a commuting FA, they have to scramble to fill that slot, before a commuting CSA or FSW, they have to put someone on Overtime or take delays due to understaffing, before a commutning Mechanic, an Aircraft may be on the ground longer than necessary resulting in a delay or cancellation. Over the year, these costs will add up. Putting an active employee on before a retiree costs nothing.

OH MY GOD!! This is hysterical! You can't have more than a few months in the industry! Do you ACTUALLY think the company pays ANY attention to commuters ? Ask any one of them for their opinion on this. Scheduling has no idea where you live or even care. They only care that you show up. If you don't, it counts against you. Try using the reason that a retiree boarded ahead of you and see what it gets you! LOL!

Not to sound to ungrateful, but the employees that dedicated their lives to this company for 35-40 years handed over an airline that was on the verge of liquidation. Free travel options for retirees without HP and the money pumped in by investors would have become nothing but a nice memory.

It isnt the employees that put the company in the situation it was in bud. <_<

 

[allegheny37]

ChrisUS
I,m speachless I,am LOL so hard at Bigman 60 remarks.
He can't be serious.

 

[dc3fanatic]

Look at it from the company's point of view, if a retiree gets on a flight before a commuting FA, they have to scramble to fill that slot, before a commuting CSA or FSW, they have to put someone on Overtime or take delays due to understaffing, before a commutning Mechanic, an Aircraft may be on the ground longer than necessary resulting in a delay or cancellation. Over the year, these costs will add up. Putting an active employee on before a retiree costs nothing.

Not to sound to ungrateful, but the employees that dedicated their lives to this company for 35-40 years handed over an airline that was on the verge of liquidation. Free travel options for retirees without HP and the money pumped in by investors would have become nothing but a nice memory.

I realize that our dedicated retirees gave years of service and put up with more frustration than I could ever handle, but this decision makes too much sense to the white collar crowd. Enjoy your retirement, use your freedom to be flexible when flying. If you've moved on to a new job, I hope it pays well enough to buy a ticket when you need to be somewhere.

One other thing I just thought of, and this may be the entire reason for this policy. Think of the number of retirees that live in the Phoenix area (from US, HP and every other company in this country), then think of the high load factors we have, in this situation could an Active PHX employee ever get on a flight?

Sorry folks, but I gotta agree with Bigman60 here. Operationally, who is more important? Current employees or retirees? Should be a no brainer to view this from a company operational perspective.

Yes, the company does allow you to commute to work from anywhere. AND, with an employee population >25k (prior to merger) the probability and possibility that someone will get bumped and not make it to work on time is high and will happen. "The company has it covered with reserves" you say? Guess how they calculate how many reserves they need? Yep, it's based on History!

SO, can you change a non-rev policy to make your company more efficient? You darned betcha! Did HP/US do that? You darned betcha!

"Not to sound to ungrateful, but the employees that dedicated their lives to this company for 35-40 years handed over an airline that was on the verge of liquidation. Free travel options for retirees without HP and the money pumped in by investors would have become nothing but a nice memory."

It isnt the employees that put the company in the situation it was in bud.

Yeah right, absolve yourself of complete responsibility. Everytime there was a merger and the employees demanded the higher wages of the merging entities . . . you created a cost structure that took you one step closer to bankruptcy. Everytime your union created a work rule inefficiency . . . you created a cost structure that took you one step towards bankruptcy. Everytime someone wasted fuel . . . (should I go on?)

I hate to break this to you . . . but it was everyone working together or not working together that brought that company to it's knees. The responsibility rests with both white collar AND blue collar workers.

 

[Barbell]

BTW flew one of the ETOPS 757's the other day. Avoid the Window Seats on the second bulkhead exit row like the plague. The only people that can possibly fit there are not legally allowed to sit there (under 15).

Have you never been there before? They're almost as bad as the CR9 seats.

 

[PQAKnow-It-All]

What I meant was that I don't believe it is that hard to understand if you consider the amount of time and energy some people have invested in this company.

OK, maybe understand is not the right word. Its hard for me to agree with your point of view on this topic.

The reasons are because I, and people like me, do not plan to retire with the company. They make it too hard to have a career here, and when my time is up, I'll be moving on to make more money elsewhere,(or I hope to god I will), and durring my time here, I do not want to have to compete with retirees for seats.

You are right, I am looking out for my own interest, but maybe you have a little more understanding why, now.

 

[bigman60]

"OH MY GOD!! This is hysterical! You can't have more than a few months in the industry! Do you ACTUALLY think the company pays ANY attention to commuters ? Ask any one of them for their opinion on this. Scheduling has no idea where you live or even care. They only care that you show up. If you don't, it counts against you. Try using the reason that a retiree boarded ahead of you and see what it gets you! LOL!"

You're an idiot, you're looking at it from the commuters point of view. Read the first sentence I wrote with me, 'Look at it from the company's point of view, ...'.

True, the company doesn't care where you live or how you get there and yes, if a commuter doesn't make it, it does count against them. However, when that commuter doesn't show up the company must replace that worker by forcing madatory OT, giving a reserve more hours, delaying/cancelling a flight because there aren't enough line mechanics to fix the plane, sending planes out without all their bags, etc. All because a commuter or two gets bumped, calls in sick and misses their shift. Multiply that across 4 hubs, 5 focus cities and a boatload of outstations and you get a significant cost throughout the year.

One example, maybe I can make this simple enough for you. Beth (20 year CSA, lives in IAH) is scheduled to work the 2nd shift at CLT, but gets bumped from her flight to CLT because Ethel (40 years service, 87 years old) is flying to CLT because it's her great grandson's first day of kindergarten, forcing Beth to call in sick, resulting in Mary (23 year CSA, worked the first shift) to pick up a madatory double. Extrapolate this situation throughout the year and some significant costs could incur. Now I ask you, who should have priority of getting on the flight, Beth or Ethel?

Have you never been there before? They're almost as bad as the CR9 seats.

What struck as darn near criminal from a legroom perspective is the attachment of the slide protruding into the cabin from the door. There is maybe 4 inches of room between the end of the seat and the beginning of the plastic holding the slide. If I were a preferred flyer who requested an exit row seat for the legroom and got this seat, I would be livid and would have to seriously consider traveling on nearly every other carrier that offers widebody service to Hawaii, should I ever return.

 

[Seatacus]

Look at it from the company's point of view, if a retiree gets on a flight before a commuting FA, they have to scramble to fill that slot, before a commuting CSA or FSW, they have to put someone on Overtime or take delays due to understaffing, before a commutning Mechanic, an Aircraft may be on the ground longer than necessary resulting in a delay or cancellation. Over the year, these costs will add up. Putting an active employee on before a retiree costs nothing.

OK.....since we seemed to have taken care of a retiree bumping a commuter and put them at a priority right behind a new hire,why don't we take this a little further. Let's put the commuters on a higher priority than regular vacation travelers. Remember vacations are not necessary and commuting is. Putting a commuter ahead of a vacationer cost nothing.

 

[oldstingerb]

:cop:

Look at it from the company's point of view, if a retiree gets on a flight before a commuting FA, they have to scramble to fill that slot, before a commuting CSA or FSW, they have to put someone on Overtime or take delays due to understaffing, before a commutning Mechanic, an Aircraft may be on the ground longer than necessary resulting in a delay or cancellation. Over the year, these costs will add up. Putting an active employee on before a retiree costs nothing.

Not to sound to ungrateful, but the employees that dedicated their lives to this company for 35-40 years handed over an airline that was on the verge of liquidation. Free travel options for retirees without HP and the money pumped in by investors would have become nothing but a nice memory.

I realize that our dedicated retirees gave years of service and put up with more frustration than I could ever handle, but this decision makes too much sense to the white collar crowd. Enjoy your retirement, use your freedom to be flexible when flying. If you've moved on to a new job, I hope it pays well enough to buy a ticket when you need to be somewhere.

One other thing I just thought of, and this may be the entire reason for this policy. Think of the number of retirees that live in the Phoenix area (from US, HP and every other company in this country), then think of the high load factors we have, in this situation could an Active PHX employee ever get on a flight?

Well, this is one retired employee that really dosen't care that much about the flying privileges. I retired back in 2001 an have not been on a airplane since. Basically if I see the inside of an airplane, it will be too soon.
I bought me a nice bus with a trailer hitch for the car and if I want to go somewhere with the wife. We see the world at ground level. I did not realize just how much I was missing when flying at 35000 feet.
I really believe that there are a lot of retirees out there that do not use the privilege as much as everyone seems to think. Yes, there are others that fly quite a lot, but again,I don't believe it's as much as everyone believes. It seems that what I'm reading is that there are 50 retirees standing by for a single flight and only one lone active employee and they are number 51 on the standby list. Oooooooh Hummmmmmmmm!
Back in my days, if a F/A or Pilot lived in another city from their base, then what they did then was preplanning. Meaning, If you had a trip, lets say on a Friday, then they made plans to fly into their base on Thursday, not the same day as their trip, they had no priority boarding except their seniority. That gave them the time to make sure that they were at their base and ready to begin thier trip. Dead heading was a term used for crews that were already on duty or a crew member on reserve called into cover certain flights. At that time boarding priority was number 1, no questions asked.
I've always said that flight crew members that do not reside at their base and are communting are subject to the same rules as the rest of the airline employees. If you commute then you have the responsibility of making sure you are at your place of work when you are scheduled to begin. Giving priority to FA's or Pilots for that purpose is not a necessity and I don't believe that there are that many CSA or FSW that commute. Nuff said and I know I've made some mad, but its time to grow up and if this is the final ruling on pass priviliges, just live with it.

:elvis: See the world in your Winnabago.

 

[ChrisUS]

:cop:
Back in my days, if a F/A or Pilot lived in another city from their base, then what they did then was preplanning. Meaning, If you had a trip, lets say on a Friday, then they made plans to fly into their base on Thursday, not the same day as their trip, they had no priority boarding except their seniority. That gave them the time to make sure that they were at their base and ready to begin thier trip. Dead heading was a term used for crews that were already on duty or a crew member on reserve called into cover certain flights. At that time boarding priority was number 1, no questions asked.

Yup, I agree completly! When I used to non rev to take a cruise, i always flew the day before. Hell, I buy tickets now for that and STILL go the day before.
If I was somewhere and had to call in sick because I was stuck, the company didnt care, you are supposed to leave yourself options. The the first flight, backup passes etc. I think every commuter does that anyway.


Nuff said and I know I've made some mad, but its time to grow up and if this is the final ruling on pass priviliges, just live with it.

Im sure they wont change their minds again. That would be admitting they made a msitake. The retiress that fly are the smallest group so you piss off the fewest people. The old "the needs of the many outweigh those of the few". Makes sense, just really is another slap in the face.

OK.....since we seemed to have taken care of a retiree bumping a commuter and put them at a priority right behind a new hire,why don't we take this a little further. Let's put the commuters on a higher priority than regular vacation travelers. Remember vacations are not necessary and commuting is. Putting a commuter ahead of a vacationer cost nothing.

Hey, why not make commuters space positive? They can confirm 24 hours out?

 

[bigman60]

Hey, why not make commuters space positive? They can confirm 24 hours out?

Revenue dilution of course.

 

[REACC1]

Bull S***!!!
It would get abused big time.

Doesn't cost a thing except moral. But then again what's that?
It's just like seniority.It seems that people want it to be worth NOTHING.

 

[hadEnuff]

It is painfully obvious the leaders of this company could care less about the dedicated efforts and sacrifices of thousands of employees who kept this company alive. Instead of taking the opportunity to show appreciation or reward us in any way for those sacrifices and hardships, they decide to let the new employees, who in many cases could care less about the company or the job, board before those that refused to give up and let the company die, which would have meant no privileges for anyone. They ditched our pension, pulled the rug on health insurance, so I guess we should have seen this coming but again we had faith in management only to be kicked down again. I guess it is truly amazing that they didn't make all the retirees pay a service charge, but then again there is still time to do that or better yet, just allow retirees a very limited number of passes per year which are valid on Tues and Wed only. That would really be a big asset to the active employees. It has been stated that the industy consolidation isn't over so those so eager and happy to push all the retirees out of the way could very well be in for a rude awakening themselves. Agree or Disagree, those are the undisputed facts.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Myself and some retirees have sent e mails to Mr. Parker addressing the new pass policy in regards to retiree boarding.I received a reply soon after. I so many words, the co. said that due to the many problems getting the merger completed, that the new pass policy will have to be done that way. Stating that SWA is a fairly new airline and with few retirees, that this would be the fair way. They do not see any new changes in the new boarding policy. Actives before retirees. It's too bad that the co. doesn't have a decent fare for retirees to travel. At least they could make some money off of us. If you go, say from Bos or Manchester to Orlando of Tampa on SWA or JetBlue it's runs about 59.00 to 119.00. Try USAirways and the price is "off the wall". After 34 years, I never figured that I would say this. But my wife and I will first look at SWA and JetBlue for traveling instead of trying to fly non-rev and sitting at a airport not knowing if you are getting on. A no brainer and for the Co. to make money would be to at least match the SWA and JetBlue fares for the retirees. That would be money that the co. would be getting for those empty seats. We wish all the retirees and the people that are not "me-me's "goodluck and have a nice holiday. We didn't get any cheese , cookies or a small bonus this year from the co. We did get a lump of coal to put in out christmas stocking though. Guess there's nothing else to take from us.

 

[EricLv2Fish]

Myself and some retirees have sent e mails to Mr. Parker addressing the new pass policy in regards to retiree boarding.I received a reply soon after. I so many words, the co. said that due to the many problems getting the merger completed, that the new pass policy will have to be done that way. Stating that SWA is a fairly new airline and with few retirees, that this would be the fair way. They do not see any new changes in the new boarding policy. Actives before retirees. It's too bad that the co. doesn't have a decent fare for retirees to travel. At least they could make some money off of us. If you go, say from Bos or Manchester to Orlando of Tampa on SWA or JetBlue it's runs about 59.00 to 119.00. Try USAirways and the price is "off the wall". After 34 years, I never figured that I would say this. But my wife and I will first look at SWA and JetBlue for traveling instead of trying to fly non-rev and sitting at a airport not knowing if you are getting on. A no brainer and for the Co. to make money would be to at least match the SWA and JetBlue fares for the retirees. That would be money that the co. would be getting for those empty seats. We wish all the retirees and the people that are not "me-me's "goodluck and have a nice holiday. We didn't get any cheese , cookies or a small bonus this year from the co. We did get a lump of coal to put in out christmas stocking though. Guess there's nothing else to take from us.

Did you suggest postive space at below SWA or JBLU prices?

 

[ChrisUS]

I so many words, the co. said that due to the many problems getting the merger completed, that the new pass policy will have to be done that way.

That is pure BS and we all know it. Overall it's a small thing, I dont non rev that much and I have ALWAYS chosen offpeak dates and times to travel. If a flight is close to capacity, I just dont go or pick another time. I have pretty much gone anywhere I wanted to in 33 years and taveling is such a huge hassle. Worse now. If I NEED to be somewhere, I buy a ticket. With the ED20 discount, its not too bad. It's the point of the thing that pisses everyone off who is affected. I was in RIC earlier this month and the weather turned bad causing some cancellations. Available flights suddenly filled. We were able to make it on a PHL flight and got home with only a 2.5 hour layover in PHL. If I hadnt boarded with my seniotity, I dont know when we would have gotten out and home. Yes, we would have made it that day, but it was nice to get SOME perk for my years of dedication. I got no goldwatch, no certificate, no plaque when I left. I made cookies my last day for everyone and made my own signs for the retirement get together for the 3 of us that left. It wasnt a company sponsored event, we just got together at a bar and had a good time. My wife bought a cake for us. Oh well, such is life I guess.

Did you suggest postive space at below SWA or JBLU prices?

Why bother? "Revenue dilution" will be the answer. It's the same when I was working. I was trying to book an elderly couple to Florida 1.2 months before Easter. They like USAirways and flew us every time they could. I tried to book a good fare( not the cheapest) and picked some not very good connections in hope inventory woukd give me the seats. They wouldnt and suggested I try the 440.00 roundtrip to Florda fare instead of the 235.00 I explained this was an an elderly couple and they wouldnt go if it was that high. Wd all KNOW what happens. Inventory doesnt give you the seats and then a month or so down the road, when things arent moving, they have a fire sale and give away seats at 150.00 or less. :down: