American looking to "right-size" the company and staffing levels for the Fall and 2021

[Rogallo]

The only reason he is here because the mother of his children still works at AA..and he just cant let go...

Well, ya know, everybody got a little OCD in 'em!

 

[Rogallo]

Rogallo, did AA make any changes to their offers when they extended the time frame? Or did they just extend the time frame in hopes that more folks would sign up?? Is the extension (IYO) a pause while waiting to see if the PPS extension goes thru??? Any more takers signing up for it????

No changes I can see. Letter from the company says they are waiting on the PSP.

 

[dfw gen]

Rogallo, did AA make any changes to their offers when they extended the time frame? Or did they just extend the time frame in hopes that more folks would sign up?? Is the extension (IYO) a pause while waiting to see if the PPS extension goes thru??? Any more takers signing up for it????

No they did not improve the offer, just extended it. The official story is that they want to give time to see if there is an additional bailout package. Personally i think they hope at the last minute there is a run for the gate

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

The airline employees are still getting full wages paid while working.

Yes but the problem is they are 80% over staffed.

The folks taking some of the leaves are getting what ever they agreed to and/or picked some at 25% one one type of leave and some at 50%, 55% and 60%, some for just months and some for years depending on the agreements inked between the groups.

The airlines offered that because part of the agreement was they can't layoff till Oct 1st. So instead of employees sitting around doing nothing at 100% pay they have employees sitting at home doing nothing for 25% pay. The airlines did not do that for YOUR benefit, they did it as a cost cutting measure.

I know you have bone to pick concerning the airline unionized workers,

Not really but it pisses me off people refuse to see this for what it really is. The patrons of this forum keep saying it is to protect the airline worker but in practice it only protects the UNIONIZED airline worker. It is very obvious that Oct provision was put there (and the possible extension) to pander to voters and as a political ploy. At this point that is so obvious that not seeing it has to be a conscious choice. So in fact the bone I have to pick has little to do with the UNION and more to do with acceptance of Democrat socialism by the membership because they are benefiting from living off government cheese. You know I have strong conservative beliefs so it should come as no surprise to you that I would reject CARES as it is a socialist construct designed solely to benefit the Democratic party (benefiting you is only a side effect) at the expense of working class Americans.

but I would think you would support the extension for your other half to keep getting paid and stay at work at least until March 2021.

No because I live within my means and don't put myself in unsustainable amounts of debt. We can live just off my income or both of us working lesser paying jobs but, even at that I have money put back. I am not like a lot of these fools where I have 5 credit cards charged to the hilt, a new $75,000 dollar truck, a 3500 sqft 4 bedroom house for 2 people, and a large expensive boat I never use. I prepare. What I don't do is make myself vulnerable then go into panic because I dug myself into a financial hole I can't get out of through sheer stupidity and bad spending habits. Airlines pay very well and everybody that works for one knows airlines are a volatile business. If you don't prepare for that volatility that is on you.

I fully support less people on unemployment no matter what industry they may be in period...

Don't kid yourself. When the airlines have said they are 80% overstaffed and the government is covering payroll with a no layoff clause you ARE on unemployment. Even more so when you take a LoA with partial pay.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

The only reason he is here because the mother of his children still works at AA..and he just cant let go...

Actually, I am here because your UNION is no longer about representing your interest but acting as an agent for the Democratic party. They only serve 2 purposes these days, to change dues money into political contributions, and to indoctrinate the membership to support the Democratic party.

I am here to wake you up to that fact. Mostly. Pissing leftist off is just a bonus.

Why do you think you have people pushing for AMFA so hard? They are tired of the BS.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Well, just read where United is adding winter flights to Florida (COVID allowing) so maybe, and hopefully we will start to see an uptick, and hopefully this time it will hold or even slowly increase at least domestically for starters.
T5towbar, I know of folks in Texas (don't know where you are) that are approved for unemployment who took the leave with 25% pay. With the unemployment benefits it came out more like 50% pay in total with 25% from work and unemployment of max pay allowed as we all should make enough as mechanics to get the max amount. In total it all comes out to about 125-150 bucks less than 50% of monthly pay to stay home. The other positives that the guys also talk about are the savings in fuel (it's a lot of commuting in Texas) wear and tear on vehicles, toll fees, some guys were buying lunches every single day and some twice a day when working their doubles, buying coffee every morning too, that all adds up greatly when you stop going to work. Some were saying a savings of 500- $1,000 per month in savings easily. Also the guys that have the crash pads for their doubles and triples, they also save those expenses as well.
A question T5, Is United allowing the folks on leave for long terms (longer than a year) to get paid in full for their vacations at end of year?? If so this would bring total compensation up to around 65-75% of pay to stay home and would be even more worthwhile to stay home as it puts us all in a lower tax bracket too saving another 3% in taxes and now starting Sep. 1st Trump just signed into law a tax break, just not sure if it will cover us or not as of yet.
FYI, once they go to the new extended leaves here, it will kill the unemployment benefits because they will say you made too much. But on the 25% pay it will work, at least in Texas.

A fine analysis. I like to see people think there way through problems.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

So? They go on unemployment and find another job just like every other swinging dick in America.

Disagree, but you won't care.

What exactly do you disagree with?

Yes exactly, they have had 6 months. If they can't get their finances in order in 6 months or come up with some sort of exit plan that is their problem. Extending CARES for them to sit on their ass..... well you just make THEIR problem MY problem. How is that fair to John Q. Taxpayer to be burdened with supporting someone who makes far more than they do to sit on their ass and collect a check.

It's not a burdened to the already tax paying folks. They will be charged the same amount of taxes as they have been paying, so not any added burden. Secondly, the folks making less than 105K will benefit from Trumps exec order of tax deferral so even LESS of a burden for those folks.

Of course it is a burden. Where do you think the government gets their money? How do you think the government is paying for all of this? Let me spell it out for you, the government is borrowing money to pay for all of this adding to our national debt. That money has to be paid back eventually, and with interest. So yes, the American citizens are absolutely being burdened for YOUR benefit, of course most likely we will just kick the bill down the road for junior to pay so who cares right? SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND, that is the American way. Let someone else pay the bill.

 

[jimntx]

Well, ya know, everybody got a little OCD in 'em!

Well, that's ok as long as he remembers that he doesn't want to call it stalking. We prefer "concerned surveillance."

 

[eolesen]

<sigh>

Seems that we need to just put La Di Da and SWAAmt in a room, since they're over half the posts in this particular thread...

Point of order: funds being used to pay for airline salaries came out of the Aviation Trust Fund, which is funded entirely by excise taxes on airline tickets and cargo waybills. It's used to pay for runway and ATC improvement projects, and I don't think anybody is planning to be increasing airport capacity anytime soon.

If you haven't actually paid for a ticket lately, stop saying "we" are spending "your" money because it's not money that was taxed/stolen from your pocket.

 

[swamt]

Yes but the problem is they are 80% over staffed.

The airlines offered that because part of the agreement was they can't layoff till Oct 1st. So instead of employees sitting around doing nothing at 100% pay they have employees sitting at home doing nothing for 25% pay. The airlines did not do that for YOUR benefit, they did it as a cost cutting measure.

Not really but it pisses me off people refuse to see this for what it really is. The patrons of this forum keep saying it is to protect the airline worker but in practice it only protects the UNIONIZED airline worker. It is very obvious that Oct provision was put there (and the possible extension) to pander to voters and as a political ploy. At this point that is so obvious that not seeing it has to be a conscious choice. So in fact the bone I have to pick has little to do with the UNION and more to do with acceptance of Democrat socialism by the membership because they are benefiting from living off government cheese. You know I have strong conservative beliefs so it should come as no surprise to you that I would reject CARES as it is a socialist construct designed solely to benefit the Democratic party (benefiting you is only a side effect) at the expense of working class Americans.

No because I live within my means and don't put myself in unsustainable amounts of debt. We can live just off my income or both of us working lesser paying jobs but, even at that I have money put back. I am not like a lot of these fools where I have 5 credit cards charged to the hilt, a new $75,000 dollar truck, a 3500 sqft 4 bedroom house for 2 people, and a large expensive boat I never use. I prepare. What I don't do is make myself vulnerable then go into panic because I dug myself into a financial hole I can't get out of through sheer stupidity and bad spending habits. Airlines pay very well and everybody that works for one knows airlines are a volatile business. If you don't prepare for that volatility that is on you.

Don't kid yourself. When the airlines have said they are 80% overstaffed and the government is covering payroll with a no layoff clause you ARE on unemployment. Even more so when you take a LoA with partial pay.

Don't get me wrong here LuLu, I am still thinking AA will have to reduce the ranks still even with the extension, the question is will AA accept the 2 bailout and wait until March 2021 to do it or will AA refuse the extension assistance and start it now (Oct)? I also still think UAL will also still have to reduce and again do they now or later??

 

[swamt]

What exactly do you disagree with?
I was disagreeing with putting them on unemployment like the rest of them. I would rather see an extension into 2021 to see if a recovery as well as a vaccine could come available and a lesser amount if any being involuntary leaves.

Of course it is a burden. Where do you think the government gets their money? How do you think the government is paying for all of this? Let me spell it out for you, the government is borrowing money to pay for all of this adding to our national debt. That money has to be paid back eventually, and with interest. So yes, the American citizens are absolutely being burdened for YOUR benefit, of course most likely we will just kick the bill down the road for junior to pay so who cares right? SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND SPEND, that is the American way. Let someone else pay the bill.

Most are grants and forgiven as long as the rules and regs are followed. Some is loans at low interest rates, IF taken, as it's by choice.
It's still the same amount of money they collect, no added burden yet, your taxes will not increase just because peoples jobs are being saved from being on the street. Read E's quote above.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

<sigh>

Seems that we need to just put La Di Da and SWAAmt in a room, since they're over half the posts in this particular thread...

Point of order: funds being used to pay for airline salaries came out of the Aviation Trust Fund, which is funded entirely by excise taxes on airline tickets and cargo waybills. It's used to pay for runway and ATC improvement projects, and I don't think anybody is planning to be increasing airport capacity anytime soon.

If you haven't actually paid for a ticket lately, stop saying "we" are spending "your" money because it's not money that was taxed/stolen from your pocket.

https://home.treasury.gov/policy-is...can-industry/payroll-support-program-payments
PARTICIPANT AMERICAN AIRLINES INC.
CITY FORT WORTH
STATE TX
AGREEMENT DATE 04/21/2020
TOTAL ANTICIPATED PAYROLL SUPPORT $5,814,516,440
TOTAL ANTICIPATED NOTE PRINCIPAL AMOUNT $1,714,354,932
TOTAL ANTICIPATED NUMBER OF WARRANTS 13,703,876
WARRANT EXERCISE PRICE $12.51

https://www.countable.us/articles/4...d-pandemic-use-cares-act-keep-workers-payroll
American Airlines: $5.8 billion in total payroll support, including $4.1 billion as a grant, $1.7 billion as a loan, and warrants to purchase 13.7 million shares of common stock at a price of $31.61 per share.

I have found NO claim stating the Aviation Trust Fund is funding payroll (except yours). Only that they are taking a hammering due to lack of collected taxes.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-...viation-orgs-warn-danger-trust-fund-depletion
“The tax holiday on passenger tickets, cargo, and fuel for the remainder of 2020 under the Coronavirus Aid, Relief, and Economic Security Act (CARES Act) may help serve as a catalyst to increase demand and support the industry once the immediate pandemic crisis has passed,” said the April 9 letter signed by a cross-section of industry. “But, the significantly reduced demand and associated tax revenue from passenger tickets and jet fuel prior to the CARES Act along with the tax holiday will most certainly lead to the insolvency of the Airport and Airway Trust Fund.”

The Aircraft Owners and Pilots Association, which is among the organizations that signed the letter, noted the aviation tax-funded AATF had a healthy cash balance of $17.9 billion at the beginning of fiscal 2020. Of that $6 billion was uncommitted—or not designated for any specific spending. Under the current scenario, preliminary FAA estimates are that the cash balance will drop to $7.8 billion, with the uncommitted balance reaching a negative $3.5 billion by the end of the fiscal year, AOPA said. At the same time, the AATF is to cover nearly all of the FAA’s budget.

“Given the seriousness of the situation, we appreciate your attention to this matter and look forward to working with Congress to develop a solution to ensure the continued solvency of the Airport and Airway Trust Fund,” the letter concluded.

Yeah.... even if they are funding payroll for the employees (which I could find NO mention of) it sure seems like they can fund employees till March doesn't it?

Feel free to substantiate your claim that airline payrolls are being funded by the AATF. I would love to see it.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

Most are grants and forgiven as long as the rules and regs are followed. Some is loans at low interest rates, IF taken, as it's by choice.
It's still the same amount of money they collect, no added burden yet, your taxes will not increase just because peoples jobs are being saved from being on the street. Read E's quote above.

I will consider his quote more seriously if he can prove his claim that payroll is being funded from that source. From what I have read AATF is in financial dire straights themselves due to lack of taxes being collected resulting from decreased demand. They hardly seem to be in the position to fund payroll until March.

But hey, I am open to learning new things. If he can prove his claim I will adjust my perception.

If true, I find it odd I have read dozens of media reports on this very subject from a variety of sources and never once saw a mention of a trust fund until now.

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

https://aashtojournal.org/2020/04/17/cares-act-funds-heading-to-airports/

I see AIRPORT payroll being funded here but not AIRLINES.

The funds are available for airport capital expenditures, airport operating expenses including payroll and utilities, and airport debt payments, it added.

 

[1986Mekanic]

Looney looo..

Only poster I ever saw that quotes himself and replies to himself... classic...