AMR Happy Hour

[eolesen]

Don't forget that CDG is a Skyteam hub. Under the JV, DL doesn't necessarily decide what routes get flown. When AF/KL decide they need more feed for AMS & CDG, DL more or less has to provide their fair share. That's why they're going into LHR. The JV voted on it, and DL drew the short straw.

All other comments about JFK-LHR are correct. BA and AA are thinning out the market for the hourly service.

 

[Hopeful]

My point is we are being trounced by Delta and CO/United in the New York market and elsewhere. We are so far behind as far as depth of service it isn't even funny. Wherever we retreat someone else swoops in and takes our business. We have only offered a tepid response with new flying. We have become the Chrysler of the airline industry and without being aggressive we are going to continue to lose high paying customers to our competition.....and business customers are going to fly an airline that goes where they want to go and not fly us because we have "happy hour". THAT'S my point.

The "Happy Hour" promotion is just a tidbit item. I don't think we are retreating JFK-LHR....That was mandatory for government approval. Delta has always been bigger to Europe ever since they purchased PanAm.
I don't see us getting trounced at JFK. I see full flights throughout the day.
Now, you are correct about retreating from markets. The Carribean from JFK for sure. Asia? We never had a strong foothold.

 

[Skymess]

My point is we are being trounced by Delta and CO/United in the New York market and elsewhere. We are so far behind as far as depth of service it isn't even funny. Wherever we retreat someone else swoops in and takes our business. We have only offered a tepid response with new flying. We have become the Chrysler of the airline industry and without being aggressive we are going to continue to lose high paying customers to our competition.....and business customers are going to fly an airline that goes where they want to go and not fly us because we have "happy hour". THAT'S my point.

Absolutely we have cut out everything nice that we have while other airlines are pumping up their service. This management team has run us into the ground to save money for themselves.
Our wines are a travesty. We used to have the nicest wine in the industry. You open the wines now and get a whiff of vinegar from half of them. We've changed our liquors from nice brands to rotgut as well.
We use 3 tiered carts on certain flights and there's nothing to put on them but plates, napkins, and carafes. We try to dress up the space where food and condiments should be but it's really stupid.

 

[Hopeful]

Absolutely we have cut out everything nice that we have while other airlines are pumping up their service. This management team has run us into the ground to save money for themselves.
Our wines are a travesty. We used to have the nicest wine in the industry. You open the wines now and get a whiff of vinegar from half of them. We've changed our liquors from nice brands to rotgut as well.
We use 3 tiered carts on certain flights and there's nothing to put on them but plates, napkins, and carafes. We try to dress up the space where food and condiments should be but it's really stupid.

I remember a long time ago Crandall saying that passengers don't care about clean aircraft. Shortly thereafter, the "RUG-SHAMPOO trucks went idle, exteriors only got cleaned during heavy checks, interiors lightly vacuumed.
The decline in service began some time ago.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

My point is we are being trounced by Delta and CO/United in the New York market and elsewhere. ... ... ...

Why all the panic about being "#3"? DL and/or CO-UA weren't always the largest and they survived just fine. Now that AA is not #1 anymore there is all this talk about doom and gloom all of the sudden.

 

[Hopeful]

Why all the panic about being "#3"? DL and/or CO-UA weren't always the largest and they survived just fine. Now that AA is not #1 anymore there is all this talk about doom and gloom all of the sudden.

I agree. And they surpassed AA in size only by merger, not by internal growth.
I believe, and somewhat agree, that AA chose the international growth path over domestic. The AA/BA/IB deal might prove more valuable with the help of open skies.

 

[jersey777]

Why all the panic about being "#3"? DL and/or CO-UA weren't always the largest and they survived just fine. Now that AA is not #1 anymore there is all this talk about doom and gloom all of the sudden.

It is not only the fact we are number 3 in size. It is the fact that we have become number 3 in size and getting to be last in profitability and service. For the last 10 years this company has known nothing but run and hide and in the last few years while others have been aggressively growing, changing and prospering, AMR has been so hamstrung with trying to figure out what to do next. We used to be a force to be reckoned with. Not anymore...hence my frustration.

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

It is not only the fact we are number 3 in size. It is the fact that we have become number 3 in size and getting to be last in profitability and service. For the last 10 years this company has known nothing but run and hide and in the last few years while others have been aggressively growing, changing and prospering, AMR has been so hamstrung with trying to figure out what to do next. We used to be a force to be reckoned with. Not anymore...hence my frustration.

I don't think it is time to panic yet. I would wait & see how the AA-BA-IB plus JAL ATI/JV and B6 code-share works once all are fully implemented, whether they result in getting the increased $$$ and other benefits they are predicted to. I also think AA still has some time to sit and look and wait and hopefully learn how the 'new' DL and UA and SW work, learn from their mistakes, take advantage of their vulnerabilities, etc. before deciding to merge if necessary to become bigger. As far as service is concerned, there is always room for improvement ... ... ...

 

[Bob Owens]

Seems to me that we only became number 1 after we bought TWA, and we see how well thats worked out for us. Southwest has never been number one but they have always been profitable and pay better than most.

Seems to me to be much ado about nothing.

 

[eolesen]

Seems to me that we only became number 1 after we bought TWA, and we see how well thats worked out for us. Southwest has never been number one but they have always been profitable and pay better than most.

Seems to me to be much ado about nothing.

Correct on both counts.

The most profitable years for AA was in the #2 and #3 position.

I'd said for many years that AA was too damn big for their own good, especially at DFW, and being in the #1 position for too long makes people get cocky.

 

[Interested]

Seems to me that we only became number 1 after we bought TWA, and we see how well thats worked out for us. Southwest has never been number one but they have always been profitable and pay better than most.

Seems to me to be much ado about nothing.

And once you hit the top spot, there is nowhere to go but DOWN.

 

[FrequentFlierCA]

I'm of the opinion that AA is in the "big enough" category. Whether it is #1 or #3 isn't especially relevant because it's global network and partnerships give it plenty of reach to attract a large customer base. it might have a psychological impact, but AA at #3 is just as much an international competitor as it was at #1.