Completing Terminal 8 JFK

[Hopeful]

Perhaps you've been hibernating, but Virgin America has 5x daily on JFK-LAX.

Might not be head to head on a frequency basis, but they're certainly in the market, and I know people who willingly choose them on a regular basis vs. flying AA or UA.

They can stick flying that long in a single aisle aircraft. Having flow even a 757 transcon I have found it not too comfortable and I'm not just talking coach seating, but just being in a widebody alone makes it a more pleasureable trip...Let alone either a red or a blue A320.

 

[eolesen]

Then why are they whin'in?

Because that's what Richard Branson does. It's all theater, and Kabuki at that...

Virgin Atlantic has over 20% of the US-UK traffic. BA and AA combined have 47%. He's afraid he'll lose share, which he likely won't. Virgin has an excellent product (and that includes Virgin America and V-Australia), and people fly the Virgin branded airlines because of that.

Hopeful, I think you know by now the revenue battle is fought and won with the customers in the front cabins. The number of aisles doesn't matter up there.

I'm not talking about Jetblue -- Virgin America's product is far superior -- just to start, they've got 110v power outlets at every seat; AA has 12v power at 20% of the seats in coach. They've got a real on-demand video system *and* live TV.

Their first class is better than AA's business class product, and is half the price (AA offers its "instant upgrade" fare but that's limited availability). They've also got "main cabin select" which is premium economy -- 38" pitch and again, half the price of AA's coach fare with 32" pitch.

I've flown Virgin, and it's worth not getting the AA miles. I'd say it's worth paying half the price of AA, but even if it were the same price, it would be worth flying on them.

 

[MERV]

Because that's what Richard Branson does. It's all theater, and Kabuki at that...

Virgin Atlantic has over 20% of the US-UK traffic. BA and AA combined have 47%. He's afraid he'll lose share, which he likely won't. Virgin has an excellent product (and that includes Virgin America and V-Australia), and people fly the Virgin branded airlines because of that.

Hopeful, I think you know by now the revenue battle is fought and won with the customers in the front cabins. The number of aisles doesn't matter up there.

I'm not talking about Jetblue -- Virgin America's product is far superior -- just to start, they've got 110v power outlets at every seat; AA has 12v power at 20% of the seats in coach. They've got a real on-demand video system *and* live TV.

Their first class is better than AA's business class product, and is half the price (AA offers its "instant upgrade" fare but that's limited availability). They've also got "main cabin select" which is premium economy -- 38" pitch and again, half the price of AA's coach fare with 32" pitch.

I've flown Virgin, and it's worth not getting the AA miles. I'd say it's worth paying half the price of AA, but even if it were the same price, it would be worth flying on them.

I agree on VX has a good product. They give the other airlines a run for its money. The difference is the network that VX doesn't have.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdK2ecxy9kU

 

[ual777fan]

Because that's what Richard Branson does. It's all theater, and Kabuki at that...

Virgin Atlantic has over 20% of the US-UK traffic. BA and AA combined have 47%. He's afraid he'll lose share, which he likely won't. Virgin has an excellent product (and that includes Virgin America and V-Australia), and people fly the Virgin branded airlines because of that.

Hopeful, I think you know by now the revenue battle is fought and won with the customers in the front cabins. The number of aisles doesn't matter up there.

I'm not talking about Jetblue -- Virgin America's product is far superior -- just to start, they've got 110v power outlets at every seat; AA has 12v power at 20% of the seats in coach. They've got a real on-demand video system *and* live TV.

Their first class is better than AA's business class product, and is half the price (AA offers its "instant upgrade" fare but that's limited availability). They've also got "main cabin select" which is premium economy -- 38" pitch and again, half the price of AA's coach fare with 32" pitch.

I've flown Virgin, and it's worth not getting the AA miles. I'd say it's worth paying half the price of AA, but even if it were the same price, it would be worth flying on them.

This would seem to be a fairly good argument in favor of AA stepping it up and improving their domestic product. The MD-80's, 757's and 767's are in sorry shape.

 

[eolesen]

Yep. Flew on a new 738 into MSP earlier in the week. World of difference, especially the 110v power outlet. I upgraded laptops a while ago and don't have the auto-style adapter anymore, and my battery was on its last legs, so this was quite welcome.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yep. Flew on a new 738 into MSP earlier in the week. World of difference, especially the 110v power outlet. I upgraded laptops a while ago and don't have the auto-style adapter anymore, and my battery was on its last legs, so this was quite welcome.

And how much extra did you or were you willing to pay for that world of difference?

 

[eolesen]

The upgrade was free, and the ticket was less than $0.25/mile. A little more than it would have been to fly on Delta, and less than Amtrak.

 

[FWAAA]

And how much extra did you or were you willing to pay for that world of difference?

It's not how much more he paid or was willing to pay - it was that he chose to buy the ticket on AA instead of another airline or another mode of transport.

Same with the FC Suites and new business seats of which you constantly complain: passengers won't pay any more for them, but their presence does drive some ticket sales to AA instead of competitors.

 

[Bob Owens]

It's not how much more he paid or was willing to pay - it was that he chose to buy the ticket on AA instead of another airline or another mode of transport.

Same with the FC Suites and new business seats of which you constantly complain: passengers won't pay any more for them, but their presence does drive some ticket sales to AA instead of competitors.

Assuming he had a choice. With capacity way down and full planes there isnt always much choice.

SWA makes plenty of money without first, business or fancy outlets. My guess is that the AAdvantage miles probably generate more customer loyalty than amenities, after all you never know if the plane they are using that day will have them or not.

Now with the return of JAL there's talk that the rest of Terminal 8 will be completed in two years.

 

[ual777fan]

Assuming he had a choice. With capacity way down and full planes there isnt always much choice.

SWA makes plenty of money without first, business or fancy outlets. My guess is that the AAdvantage miles probably generate more customer loyalty than amenities, after all you never know if the plane they are using that day will have them or not.

Now with the return of JAL there's talk that the rest of Terminal 8 will be completed in two years.

But Southwest has also started rolling out power ports on their planes, replacing the old cloth seats with new leather ones and renovating boarding areas. They're putting money into their inflight product, AA is not - at least domestically.

 

[jimntx]

But Southwest has also started rolling out power ports on their planes, replacing the old cloth seats with new leather ones and renovating boarding areas. They're putting money into their inflight product, AA is not - at least domestically.

First off, when have you seen a Southwest plane with cloth seats? I've never flown on one of their a/c that didn't have leather seats. And, I commute on them from DAL to STL at every opportunity.

The power ports are a response to requests from their rapidly growing business customer base. The no charge for bags, the small fee to board first (Business Select), the comfort, the incredible friendliness and professionalism of their employees are all stealing business customers from the rest of us.

We have to remember that Southwest is run by airline people. The rest of us are run by accountants.

 

[eolesen]

Gee, Bob. Glad you're concerned about my lack of choices, but DL, UA, and AA all had space to sell on day of departure. No shortage of seats, and the nonrevs even got onboard.

Jim, the funny part about that statement is that Arpey hasn't worked outside the airlines. Ever. Well over half of AA's senior and exec VP's have in the airlines for 20 years or longer. And those are real years, not credited years... DL's senior staff is similar, and oddly, so is US's. UA, too, although it's harder to see that when the only people ever mentioned are the C-suite types.

 

[jimntx]

Spending your entire career at an airline does not make you an airline person any more than spending 20+ years in the oil business made me a roustabout. As I saw somewhere recently, sleeping in the garage doesn't make me a car, either. Arpey is an accountant at heart and always will be. To redirect what another member of this bulletin board stated so succinctly about another airline's execs...Arpey knows the cost of everything and the value of nothing.

And, he has no taste whatsoever. Accepting those bonusses on 15Apr08 the same day he was announcing a $324 million loss for the 1st quarter was extremely bad taste. Now, don't get me wrong, compared to oil industry execs, Arpey and company are amateurs at collecting bonusses, but there was a telling difference between him and the oil execs. In the oil business we were making money hand over fist. Don't bore me with your "his contract forced him to accept the bonusses." It wasn't right, and in your heart you know it.

But, I do have to admire his all-encompassing chutzpah. He announces a $400+ million loss for the 4th quarter and a huge loss for the year, again. And, he always finishes with "But, we are well positioned for the future." Or, similar drivel.

 

[damajagua]

I guess there are plans to complete T8. After reading today press release they said that they
are studying a proposal to complete T8 and have British Airways move in to T8