Could F/a's Honor Mechanics Strike Now?
- Thread starter Skyyggoddess
- Start date
NWA/AMT,
ALPA was under the gun right after 9/11 just like everyone else. They negotiated both a contract extension and a bridge agreement before AMFA or PFAA even opened negotiations. Both were designed to buy time, limit concessions, ensure all parties were involved in a solution, and delay BK. They were proactive instead of reactive. They tried to get all of the other unions to present a united front and it was rejected. If the terms presented were unacceptable then all I can say is the unions had a difference of opinion in how a solution could best be reached. Each union thought they were right and that is what it really boils down to. If ALPA acted as you expected them to act then you must have known that they wouldn't walk with AMFA. I honestly didn't know which way they would go and was prepared to honor their decision either way. You say we can't agree to disagree then I guess we must just have a difference of opinion. I'm not going to convince you that ALPA was right and you aren't going to convince me that AMFA was right. Since there was not a united front from labor we may never know. I'm sure ALPA will blame AMFA and PFAA for not coming together and AMFA and PFAA will blame ALPA. The reason that point keeps coming up is because it is part of the background information that was completely void on this board. I didn't think I was violently defending pilots in any part of my previous posts, I was just voicing another opinion that wasn't getting representation i.e. a pilot side of the story. Why do you react so violently when AMFA and their decisions are criticized? Aren't we all entitled to our opinion? Mine is just different from yours. I don't post very often, but I was tired of all of the non-NWA cheerleaders on this board bashing the pilot group without any knowledge of the background that occured since 9/11. I have always found your posts reasonable, measured, and informative. I hate the fact that we are flying and have to walk by striking mechanics to get to work, but my conscience is clear. I still support the mechanics and AMFA in their strike. I wish them the best. I hope for the best for all NWA employees. Since you said we cannot agree to disagree, I've said what I wanted to say and I will concede the last word to you. Good luck...ExAF
ALPA was under the gun right after 9/11 just like everyone else. They negotiated both a contract extension and a bridge agreement before AMFA or PFAA even opened negotiations. Both were designed to buy time, limit concessions, ensure all parties were involved in a solution, and delay BK. They were proactive instead of reactive. They tried to get all of the other unions to present a united front and it was rejected. If the terms presented were unacceptable then all I can say is the unions had a difference of opinion in how a solution could best be reached. Each union thought they were right and that is what it really boils down to. If ALPA acted as you expected them to act then you must have known that they wouldn't walk with AMFA. I honestly didn't know which way they would go and was prepared to honor their decision either way. You say we can't agree to disagree then I guess we must just have a difference of opinion. I'm not going to convince you that ALPA was right and you aren't going to convince me that AMFA was right. Since there was not a united front from labor we may never know. I'm sure ALPA will blame AMFA and PFAA for not coming together and AMFA and PFAA will blame ALPA. The reason that point keeps coming up is because it is part of the background information that was completely void on this board. I didn't think I was violently defending pilots in any part of my previous posts, I was just voicing another opinion that wasn't getting representation i.e. a pilot side of the story. Why do you react so violently when AMFA and their decisions are criticized? Aren't we all entitled to our opinion? Mine is just different from yours. I don't post very often, but I was tired of all of the non-NWA cheerleaders on this board bashing the pilot group without any knowledge of the background that occured since 9/11. I have always found your posts reasonable, measured, and informative. I hate the fact that we are flying and have to walk by striking mechanics to get to work, but my conscience is clear. I still support the mechanics and AMFA in their strike. I wish them the best. I hope for the best for all NWA employees. Since you said we cannot agree to disagree, I've said what I wanted to say and I will concede the last word to you. Good luck...ExAF
Better to have tried and failed than never have tried at all. At least they gave it a shot. They didn't prevent BK but they were successful in delaying it. It probably would have come sooner if they hadn't agreed to the bridge agreement last year.AA-MCI said:
ExAF,
You have issues that are beyound this forum.
JMHO&PO;
What held 'us' together was the 'glue' of military service and combat.
Honor and Respect!
Last week I spoke to a NWA Captian while on picket duty.
"ALPA should have shut down the industry when USAir was getting raped"!
Get a Grip Brother!!!
-BigE
You have issues that are beyound this forum.
JMHO&PO;
What held 'us' together was the 'glue' of military service and combat.
Honor and Respect!
Last week I spoke to a NWA Captian while on picket duty.
"ALPA should have shut down the industry when USAir was getting raped"!
Get a Grip Brother!!!
-BigE
Big E,Emil.Howes said:
Where did this post come from? What issues are you talking about? What does military service and combat have to do with this forum? I've been there and done that. Sorry, but I don't buy it. I may have missed something, but people weren't dying last time I checked. To compare a strike with actual combat is insulting to anyone that has been there. I happen to agree with the NWA captain you spoke with. Did you call him a SCAB since he was either going to or coming from work? That was one of the underlying issues I was really addressing in the previous posts. If you think I have issues, get specific and I'll engage. Until then, My "grip" is just fine Brother!
ExAF said:
ExAF,
Missed the point, did you not?
No, I did not call 'HER' a SCAB either.
I actually talk to and respect people.
Take Care Brother,
-BigE
Yes, I did miss the point. I guess I'm not as smart as you thought I was. I still have no idea what point you were trying to make. I am willing to listen if you are willing to try to make it again. I also talk to and respect people; however I do get a little touchy when I perceive someone is comparing military service and combat to a labor action.Emil.Howes said:
Good Luck...ExAF
ExAF,
And I likewise take exception to people that do not understand the connection.
Aviation was built on an ex-military base.
Pilots and Mechanics were/are typically from one branch of the service or another.
Most of us were/are combat veterans as well from the Korean war to the Gulf War(s). When I walk picket, I walk with proud veterans as well as striking employees of NWA. These same people have the morals and tenacity to make a stand when most would ‘take the easy way out’.
Even today, (probably not at NWA) you might see an AMT stand at attention in front of the bird after pushback and exchange a snappy salute with the Captain.
In this ‘labor action’ one must have the morals, ethics, intestinal fortitude, and tenacity to make a stand against a larger force.
Think about it!
Take Care,
-BigE
operaations said:
I stand behind my fellow flight attendants and all other union brothers and sisters 110%! Are you accusing me of tampering and spitting in pax drinks? That's a serious accusation and you better watch what you say about stuff like that. I don't do that but, I have given a pax or two the finger for being an (edited by moderator).
I take my job seriously when I am on the plane. I watch out for myself and my fellow crew members. I also watch out for people (like yourself) who like to give us crap on the plane. If they do, I call El Capitan and tell him/her the deal. If we need to land the plane because our safety is at risk, then I suggest to El Capitan we do.
Now run a long and push that pencil a little harder, you resident (edited by moderator)! You have a flight attendant on hold who wants to call in SK!
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
Emil.Howes said:
I didn't get it either and your further attempt to explain yourself is lame at best. You guys don't even begin to resemble any type of military force. Your tactics are crude and street gang organized at best. The ladies of the MADD organization are better organized and structured than your union and they have a much smaller budget. You guys are a bunch of clowns that got suckered by your union and refuse to admit it.
PlayTheOdds said:
They are couragous and you are merely an opportunist, a coward, and a fool. They can live with their actions. You'll have to live with your cowardly actions for the rest of your life.
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
proAMFA said:
You guys continue to think that I find that insulting and unbearable. I have no remorse what so ever about crossing your pitiful little picket line. Of course I'm an opportunist and so is every other American. That is the problem with you guys. You dig a big rut and become comfortable with it. The problem is you did it on someone else’s property. Now that they want to fill it in you are crying foul. Go find yourself a life outside of the rut.
ExAF said:
Giving the someone else your opinion of what they should be willing to give is NOT an exercise in consensus building. The reason AMFA was unwilling to open their contract before the amendable date was that they did not feel that NWA was actually willing to look for solutions, instead relying on their previous tactic of coming to the mechanics with set demands that were presented as the only way to achieve the savings everyone admitted were necessary. We had been down that road before in 1993 and learned the hard way that it didn't work. Having ALPA follow close behind with a similar approach ensured that it would be rejected.
No, I did not. Nor did I expect that the IAM would either, certainly, even though they must know that their turn is coming. However, considering what NWA had said was in store for their group, I was somewhat surprised that the flight attendants did not.
No, I merely said that agreeing to disagree doesn't really work if you keep repeating the point.
I have no desire to do that; all I've been trying to explain to you that ALPA's solution wasn't, by definition, the only solution and that repeating over and over "ALPA was right and everybody else was wrong" is an exercise in futility.
Yet you began your effort by implying that the mechanics crossed the ALPA picket line in 1998 when the reality is that the IAM crossed with ALPA's approval. If you wish to tell the story, tell the whole story.
I don't, in fact I have been very critical of some of the decisions of AMFA myself and have presented those criticisms to the appropriate people directly rather than voicing them here. But I also won't sit by and see all the blame for the failure of the NWA unions to present a united front placed on everyone BUT ALPA when the reality is somewhere between the two points.
Opinion presented as fact is not actually an opinion and is open to rebuttal in critical argumentation.
As I have yours. I have no issue with you or anyone else defending the pilots, only with attempting to deflect the blame to others in doing so. Earlier you said that management was the culprit and I agreed. Place the blame where it belongs.
I've told you that I did not expect the pilots to honor the AMFA picket line, and that I have no blame for them for their decision. However, you have to understand that many do and you're not going to convince them. That's what I meant by the term 'absolution'.
I appreciate your support and share your wishes for all NWA employees.
ExAF said:
So was delaying the filing worth the 15% on top of what you'll have to give now? You weren't going to prevent it, as you have admitted.
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