WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
FWAAA,
obviously none of us know how it will all play out... but what you don't seem to want to admit is that DL already is aggressively price competitive in markets where it has had low fare competitors for years... and the result is clear that those LFCs have stayed about the same size - less than 20% market size - and based on DOT data, DL still commands revenue premiums.
Meanwhile, AA and CO both feel the need to be at least somewhat competitive with WN's prices even though WN uses different airports.
The network carriers do very much know how to protect their markets - and DL which has had one of the largest direct competitive situations has done a very good job of keeping FL in check.
DEN- the largest success story for WN in a network carrier hub - came in the midst of a costly 3 way battle in which UA - in the midst of its BK - decided to not be price competitive with the lowest fares. We'll see news shortly but all the indications are that it will be F9 who is pushed out of DEN - or at least significantly in their impact on the market.
FL's costs are lower than WN's... no one expects that WN will lower prices when they come to ATL... they'll push the value of their free checked bags, but again that is not near as big of an advantage as alot of people think in a market where DL has millions of passengers a year that receive exemptions to DL's charges.
I fully expect that AA WILL defend its N. Texas market - they've said they plan to return to DAL. But they also cannot possible put in enough capacity at DAL or lower prices at DFW to keep WN from gaining some passengers.... there are significant geographic advantages of each airport and unlike MDW vs ORD, DAL is closer to a large pool of business and wealth that is not true in MDW....
.
Bottom line is that you and others contiue to HOPE that WN will somehow significantly hurt DL in ATL while believing there will be no impact on AA in DFW... both are mere fantasies... DL has figured out how to defend its turf and the Dallas market presents huge opportunities for WN.....
I am very comfortable in saying that WN will command a much higher share of the combined DAL/DFW market in 5 years than I am in believing that WN will grow its presence in ATL much beyond what FL has already established in a market that has been stimulated for many years by lower fares than WN will offer... and as much as you and I both want to reduce this to an ATL/DFW discussion/comparison of WN to AA/DL, there are still a whole lot of new opportunities that WN has and they will prioritize each of those opportunities along w/ what they can do in N. Texas and ATL....
WN has been as successful as it has because it makes good decisions about where to grow its revenue base... and has largely not gotten into costly pissing matches with other carriers.
.
Why you want to throw history out for AA/DL or WN, don't know but I'm quite certain that all carriers will build on what they have learned to do well, not make changes that introduce greater risks w/ little chance of success.
obviously none of us know how it will all play out... but what you don't seem to want to admit is that DL already is aggressively price competitive in markets where it has had low fare competitors for years... and the result is clear that those LFCs have stayed about the same size - less than 20% market size - and based on DOT data, DL still commands revenue premiums.
Meanwhile, AA and CO both feel the need to be at least somewhat competitive with WN's prices even though WN uses different airports.
The network carriers do very much know how to protect their markets - and DL which has had one of the largest direct competitive situations has done a very good job of keeping FL in check.
DEN- the largest success story for WN in a network carrier hub - came in the midst of a costly 3 way battle in which UA - in the midst of its BK - decided to not be price competitive with the lowest fares. We'll see news shortly but all the indications are that it will be F9 who is pushed out of DEN - or at least significantly in their impact on the market.
FL's costs are lower than WN's... no one expects that WN will lower prices when they come to ATL... they'll push the value of their free checked bags, but again that is not near as big of an advantage as alot of people think in a market where DL has millions of passengers a year that receive exemptions to DL's charges.
I fully expect that AA WILL defend its N. Texas market - they've said they plan to return to DAL. But they also cannot possible put in enough capacity at DAL or lower prices at DFW to keep WN from gaining some passengers.... there are significant geographic advantages of each airport and unlike MDW vs ORD, DAL is closer to a large pool of business and wealth that is not true in MDW....
.
Bottom line is that you and others contiue to HOPE that WN will somehow significantly hurt DL in ATL while believing there will be no impact on AA in DFW... both are mere fantasies... DL has figured out how to defend its turf and the Dallas market presents huge opportunities for WN.....
I am very comfortable in saying that WN will command a much higher share of the combined DAL/DFW market in 5 years than I am in believing that WN will grow its presence in ATL much beyond what FL has already established in a market that has been stimulated for many years by lower fares than WN will offer... and as much as you and I both want to reduce this to an ATL/DFW discussion/comparison of WN to AA/DL, there are still a whole lot of new opportunities that WN has and they will prioritize each of those opportunities along w/ what they can do in N. Texas and ATL....
WN has been as successful as it has because it makes good decisions about where to grow its revenue base... and has largely not gotten into costly pissing matches with other carriers.
.
Why you want to throw history out for AA/DL or WN, don't know but I'm quite certain that all carriers will build on what they have learned to do well, not make changes that introduce greater risks w/ little chance of success.