Delta reports record profit for Q4

[AANOTOK]

Also, every one of DL's network competitors (legacy if you prefer) do not pay 100% on sick time from the first day as DL does.

Not true WT. I have been with AA (Fleet) twenty-nine years now and we have always been paid 100% from day one. Now, under their recently proposed "term sheet", they want to change that to 60% for the first three days. But until our mighty TWU signs off on it or the judge imposes it, we will continue to be paid 100%.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Not true WT. I have been with AA (Fleet) twenty-nine years now and we have always been paid 100% from day one. Now, under their recently proposed "term sheet", they want to change that to 60% for the first three days. But until our mighty TWU signs off on it or the judge imposes it, we will continue to be paid 100%.

does this apply to all TWU represented groups at AA?

 

[2BlacknBlue]

...and in merit job classes, your pay increases. If you are above average, then you should be able to move into merit jobs where a higher percentage of your pay is performance based. Remaining in a job class that does not have sufficient performance based compensation is a personal decision but comes with limitations on your ability to control greater parts of your own compensation.
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I was a merit employee for 12 years. DL rarely...RARELY paid on a performance basis. They paid u what they wanted u to have. Period. And lets not forget the merit group was on a pay freeze from July 2001-April 2007! Tell the truth!

 

[AANOTOK]

does this apply to all TWU represented groups at AA?

Not sure, I only work for one TWU represented group and it does apply.
Maybe you should know since you stated "Also, every one of DL's network competitors (legacy if you prefer) do not pay 100% on sick time from the first day as DL does."

 

[topDawg]

Let's be clear that if DL is even at 50% RR on the ramp, and it might be 2/3 of DL's ramp staff, the process started with 7.5 more than 15 years ago... then, the focus was on outsourcing and DL did cut ramp personnel by thousands of people..... at the time, mostly those with less than 10 years of service.
DL ACS did not take proportionately any deeper cuts in BK than any other workgroup and may have actually been cut less since they had already begun the process of moving to a new model for reducing airport costs.
As much as any of us would like to think that working the ramp is a full-time career job, the reality is that DL has been able to create a model that probably makes it ramp costs some of the lowest in the industry....
but it is also important to note that DL has had the flexibility to implement those changes over time, grandfathering in those who were hired under the traditional employment model but hiring new personnel under a new model - essentially a B scale type program.
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You need only look at DL's announcement today regarding early retirement packages to realize that employees at other airlines are asking for early out programs, DL is offering severance packages that could have values (depending on age and seniority) over $100K. I don't think any other US airline is offering packages that rich. DL made the decision to offer that type of package because it heard from employees that the biggest fear (and obstacle) in early retirements is covering health care costs. They obviously made the decision that it is worth subsidizing health care costs for early retirees so that they could bring in new employees - but no one is being forced out of their position.
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I don't think you will be able to find any company that is hiring people today and telling them they should plan on sticking around for a 30 year career or more.... that mindset doesn't exist in the developed world any more.
The key is to figure out how to create an environment where companies can adapt w/o inflicting pain on those who remain....
Not every position can be staffed with part-time employees... but DL has figured out how to create a system that keeps costs down while ensuring the future of those employees who were hired with the expectation that they would remain for a career and wish to do so.
The fact that DL is reporting operational numbers as strong as it is - and every ramp oriented metric (speed of bags to claim, efficiency of pushbacks/arrivals etc) or experience I can see is positive, then I have a hard time understanding the argument that DL should continue to pay costs that it doesn't need to in order to get the job done - or that they are harming those FT/career people who choose to stay.
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The greatest value DL has gained from being non-union outside of the pilots (among large labor groups) is that it has had the ability to adapt to the constantly changing airline industry environment, and in the process of adapting better and faster than its peers, has been able to provide more security to more employees than other airlines - and in the process gain competitive opportunities that other carriers cannot obtain.
I find it hard to understand how that is not a win-win-win solution in an industry where most "wins" are far more unbalanced - and usually at the expense of employees.

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Dawg,
I did some poking around at sick time benefits for the industry and find that DL is the only airline that allows sick time to be used as personal time... so essentially it is indeed possible to have an extra 7 days of vacation time if you happen to be a healthy person.
Also interesting to note that DL has more holidays than either AA or UAI think we have like 2 more than UA? it isn't much, they still have about 10-12 more off days then we do.. Are system is Paid person time, but if you work in a high OJI environment like TOC or the Ramp then people like to sit on that time because it will be used to bridge you over to Short term dis. Me personally i try to save them up then take the end of the year off. (but i also have a week in the bank)
Also, every one of DL's network competitors (legacy if you prefer) do not pay 100% on sick time from the first day as DL does. right, most are some like half for X then onto full, but i'll trade PPT for 3 weeks of vacation, lower heath care cost, 150 bucks more a month, and a hard cap on outsourcing.
Further, DL's OJI provides some of the longest benefits... UA has a program like what DL (and I believe NW) used to have but it takes over 10 years of service to accumulate the same amount of coverage... other airlines have shorter limits.

 

[WorldTraveler]

the comparison I had was actually for mechanics... I'm sure there are AA mechanics who could say whether they are paid 100% for sick time from day one... but even if the current policy is the same, AA's sick time compensation will change very soon while there appear to be no changes to DL's sick time policies on the horizon.
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As for the question of whether DL merit employees had a pay freeze leading up to and during BK, I would certainly expect they would have... DL does realize that you can't expect frontline people to take cuts in BK at the same time headquarters staff are getting pay raises. In fact, DL laid off alot of administrative/merit people and it was done by forced ranking and performance evaluations with no consideration given to seniority.
But DL did come up with some merit pools to be used for merit raises during BK - but that was well into the BK process and after layoffs- in essence, DL tried to provide a few increases to some of the people who remained and were high performers using funds that were generated from the cuts.
I also know people who left DL to go to UA - some of whom are still there - because UA was further along in its restructuring process and began hiring after BK before DL re-emerged from BK.
But let's also keep in mind that DL has been out of BK for a few months short of 5 years... and so far as I know, they have been using performance based pay with merit employees ever since.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

the comparison I had was actually for mechanics... I'm sure there are AA mechanics who could say whether they are paid 100% for sick time from day one... but even if the current policy is the same, AA's sick time compensation will change very soon while there appear to be no changes to DL's sick time policies on the horizon.

CAL mechanics get paid 100% from their first day also.

 

[WorldTraveler]

CAL mechanics get paid 100% from their first day also.

yes, I have noted that... the question remains whether UA will accept CO's pay and benefits package for its own mechanics or not. The challenge they face is that their ACQUIRED airline's employees have better pay and benefits than UA employees in many cases but if they accept CO's pay and benefits package w/o a corresponding increase in efficiencies, UA will be in serious trouble. Remember that CO's overall employee costs were much lower per employee than their other network peers because CO employees had lower seniority and often age than their peers - a lingering effect of CO's BKs decades before combined with its high growth strategy in the 90s and early 2000s. But that is also why CO mgmt knew their competitive advantage of low costs was coming to an end and selling out while CO was at its peak made alot of sense. Even if it remained independent, CO would have not been able to reproduce the same financial results because its labor costs were quickly growing to levels comparable with other network carriers. That is exactly the problem WN now faces as well... their efficiencies can't overcome the cost of retirees and a much more senior workforce.
Or UA might raise labor rates to CO levels - plus a premium for labor integration - and then have to turn around and outsource more work - which gained labor very little if anything.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

yes, I have noted that...

I was responding to the discussion on this statement...

"Also, every one of DL's network competitors (legacy if you prefer) do not pay 100% on sick time from the first day as DL does."

If you already acknowledged its inaccuracy then I must've missed it, my apologies.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I knew that CO mechanics had a different sick policy than UA... but I (wrongly) lumped you all together because of UA's ownership. While you are UA now, you do still have separate CBAs.
My apologies if I slighted the CO mechanics....

 

[WorldTraveler]

Now that all carriers have reported their Feb 2012 traffic results, it is noteworthy that DL once again has reported the strongest RASM in the industry among carriers that report RASM on monthly basis.

On 2% less system capacity, DL pushed LF up 3% with RASM up 13%.
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US came in next in terms of RASM with 6% more capacity, LF was up 2% and RASM was up 7%.
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WN traffic grew 4% on 6% more capacity for a 2 point LF decline with RASM up 4%.
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UA traffic was up 3.5% on 5.5% more capacity which sent LF down 1.5 points. RASM was the lowest for any of the network carriers at 2%. UA noted that they had more cancellations last year than this which pushed their capacity up.... but capacity grew faster than what was added back by stronger operations.
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DL and UA - the only two carriers that report monthly fuel prices - noted that their Feb fuel price was $3.30/gal for UA and $3.35 for DL. DL had an advantage in fuel prices for January which apparently did not continue with Feb. UA fuel price was up 5% over Jan with DL even higher.
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All of this data validates that alot more capacity needs to come out of the system in order to keep up with increase in fuel prices.
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It also says that DL has had an advantage in managing capacity because its merger process is finished with respect to integrating the DL and NW networks while UA/CO and WN both are still fairly early in the process.
US did the best job of opportunistically adding capacity where other carriers cut - but they also flew their TATL system at a 57% capacity for the month which has to be below where they could make money.

This article notes DL's improving margins driven by revenue improvements.
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/03/08/delta-air-lines-turns-more-into-more.aspx

 

[BoeingBoy]

I'm sure you noticed why DL had the largest increase in RASM and forgot to mention it...

Jim

 

[topDawg]

I'm sure you noticed why DL had the largest increase in RASM and forgot to mention it...

Jim

So why don't you tell us?

 

[topDawg]

Now that all carriers have reported their Feb 2012 traffic results, it is noteworthy that DL once again has reported the strongest RASM in the industry among carriers that report RASM on monthly basis.

On 2% less system capacity, DL pushed LF up 3% with RASM up 13%.
.
US came in next in terms of RASM with 6% more capacity, LF was up 2% and RASM was up 7%.
.
WN traffic grew 4% on 6% more capacity for a 2 point LF decline with RASM up 4%.
.
UA traffic was up 3.5% on 5.5% more capacity which sent LF down 1.5 points. RASM was the lowest for any of the network carriers at 2%. UA noted that they had more cancellations last year than this which pushed their capacity up.... but capacity grew faster than what was added back by stronger operations.
.
DL and UA - the only two carriers that report monthly fuel prices - noted that their Feb fuel price was $3.30/gal for UA and $3.35 for DL. DL had an advantage in fuel prices for January which apparently did not continue with Feb. UA fuel price was up 5% over Jan with DL even higher.
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All of this data validates that alot more capacity needs to come out of the system in order to keep up with increase in fuel prices.
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It also says that DL has had an advantage in managing capacity because its merger process is finished with respect to integrating the DL and NW networks while UA/CO and WN both are still fairly early in the process.
US did the best job of opportunistically adding capacity where other carriers cut - but they also flew their TATL system at a 57% capacity for the month which has to be below where they could make money.

This article notes DL's improving margins driven by revenue improvements.
http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2012/03/08/delta-air-lines-turns-more-into-more.aspx

Just like i keep telling people at work, more mergers are coming. Get ready for that union vote....again.

 

[BoeingBoy]

So why don't you tell us?

It's simple - DL is the only carrier WT listed that reduced capacity. With everything else equal, fewer seats (the ASM in Revenue/ASM's=RASM) means an increase in RASM. Throw in the fare increases over the last year and the revenue increases. A bigger number (revenue) divided by a smaller number (ASM's) equals a bigger result (RASM) than a year ago.

The other carriers listed increased ASM's, not necessarily because they wanted to. US has a minimum fleet and block hour requirement and has been replacing 737-300's with A321's (more seats/plane plus flying longer average stage length), for example. Increasing capacity means they have to increase revenue just to maintain the same RASM, then raise it further to have an increase in RASM. A capacity increase of 6% and a RASM increase of 7% means that revenue increased about as much, as a percentage, as DL.

Jim