DL CEO hints at PVG hub

[topDawg]

You could not be more wrong.  I would have to take lessons in order to even care what the hell DL does.  I'm certainly not the WT of AA trying to tell everyone else what they should or should not do.  I noticed on another post that himself has just decreed a new minimum standard for a world-class airline.  One must fly LAX-SYD.  There are any number of airlines that don't fly that route that are highly preferable to DL.  I've flown most of them and DL.  Your not nearly as special as you think.  What next? One must fly ATL-CSG in order to be even considered for world-class designation?

I'm sorry but what? when did I say any of that. 
 
Slow down, read that and try again.

 

Oh, and you'll be happy to know that you have earned a place next to WT on the ignore list.  The day is coming when the two of you will just be posting back and forth to each other  because the rest of us are all sick of the Dullta Uber Alles all day every day. You make a lovely couple.

Okay now i will ask if you know how to read? 
9 out of 10 times i don't come remotely close to agreeing with WT. 
 
but hey, if you want to ignore go ahead. While that happens i will keep not giving two ounces of a f**k about it boss. 

 

[topDawg]

Traffic to/from Oz is skewed heavily towards an AU point of origin. Aussies love to come to the US in greater numbers than Americans go there. If AA were in LAX-SYD with their own metal, they'd be challenged to hold their own up against QF's almost all-A380 schedule.

but in a JV they wouldn't have to "hold their own" 
thats the point of a JV. 
 
And with all the issues QF has I would be willing to bet moving a frequency or two over to AA would help, not hurt. IMO with the 77W AA would have the 2nd best product on the route. 
 

DL manages to do OK in US-OZ mainly because because VA is still a relatively small airline outside of Australia -- they only have 5 B773's capable of flying to the US, so DL picks up the slack quite nicely.

I don't disagree, but I also think LAX-SYD is a route Delta *has* to fly if they are going to be big in LA. 
and that is why they started it, the JV came after. 
 

US-CN is going to eventually be the same way that US-AU is -- more Chinese will be looking to travel from China than there will be Americans looking to travel to experience second world living. To the extent that the Chinese airlines don't have the lift, their US counterparts may do well. CX certainly isn't in that position -- they've got plenty of lift.

even with that, I don't believe AA can build a true gateway to Asia at LAX without a flight to HKG. 
Same reason Delta *had* to add SEA-ICN and if they want to make LAX a true gate will have to add LAX-ICN. 
KE has plenty of capacity and a better product (to LAX, IIRC SEA isn't lie-flat C seats) but its still a route they would have to fly. 
 

As a traveler, I was more than content to fly on BA, CX or QF for the reasons that others have already intimated -- their service is far better. Star and Skyteam are content to have overlapping services in markets, and oneworld seems to take a different approach by dividing and conquering.

as a traveler I would much rather fly on a lot of airlines before i fly on the US3. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

dawg,
just agree with jim so he puts you on ignore because it really doesn't mean he does just like E.

Jim used to bring some decent insights to the board but he has become just another grouchy old man... IOW a 2nd career AA FA.

and E, as with a lot of countries, US carriers carry a higher percentage (if not higher total number of passengers) with a US point of origin compared to foreign carriers.

and DL and UA STILL each manage to get half of their passengers from Australia and still get respectable average fares.

AA can't do that?

and the same trend exists in China with DL and UA carrying a disproportionate share of US passengers and at higher average fares.

In contrast, AA's average fares are lower and with a higher percentage of Chinese originating passengers.

carrying lower yielding foreign passengers is the same type of strategy that AA has used to build volume and share in Latin America and why AA is feeling the pain of a strong dollar in Latin America more than DL or UA.

dawg
as for ICN, DL or UA haven't started LAX-ICN or other Asia routes because they directly compete with strong foreign carriers many of whom are their alliance partners. Starting those routes will only cause those carriers on top of DL and UA to add more capacity because LAX is the top int'l market for nearly every one of those carriers.

and again, despite all of the predictions about AA's growth in Asia, DL is the largest int'l carrier among US carriers and as of this summer will have a frequency and city advantage to both AA and UA.

and DL also serves Australia with its own metal PLUS has a JV there as well.

and DL will have 4 daily flights to PVG - there aren't too many int'l cities where DL operates 4 or more widebody int'l flights.

oh, and DL hasn't cut anything from its European service because of the AF/KL/AZ JV. AZ was added which changed the calculation. Let us know what ALPA settles that change in the calculation for.

 

[eolesen]

Keep in mind DL "had" to fly SEA-ICN because KE doesn't serve it, and it's the major Skyteam hub in the region.

Without a JV with KE, there's some incentive for DL to serve LAX-ICN, but it's questionable how well they'd hold up against KE, aside of the captive elite market who already doesn't earn full credit for flying on KE. If DL had the same FF reciprocity you see in oneworld or Star, customers would have no barriers to flying on the alliance partner. But, we all know how DL feels about their non-JV "partners".

IIRC, DL announced LAX-SYD about the same time the JV with VA was announced. I was directly working with VA on their startup, and the loads they were generating at the time were less than enthusiastic. They had to give away their business class product (which was better than QF's) by pricing it at half of what QF was getting at the time. Linking up with DL gave them an instant shot in the arm, and it was good for both airlines. Mutual benefit. That's where a JV works.

There's no need to do that with QF & AA. There's no need to do that with CX & AA, either. Both are the dominant players in their home markets, and the only people who think that the airline needs to be there are employees who've been brainwashed into thinking that an airline has to fly its own metal to be viewed as important.

You can continue to beat the drums about how other airlines are less successful because they don't follow DL's way of business, but it doesn't mean it's the only way to be successful. Customer behavior certainly proves otherwise. So does the experience of the 90% of airlines involved in alliances who choose to leverage that and *not* overlay each other's point to point flying.

 

[jimntx]

I'm sorry but what? when did I say any of that. 
 
Slow down, read that and try again.

Please don't develop WT-itis and start denying you posted what you posted.  I quote from the post in which you responded to one of my posts...

"The s**t storm that would happen if DL dropped a route like LAX-SYD to Virgin here would be epic from people like yourself."

Now read carefully...since you were responding to my post, yourself would be me. Now go back and read my response again.
 
"You could not be more wrong.  I would have to take lessons to even care what the hell DL does."

 

[WorldTraveler]

Keep in mind DL "had" to fly SEA-ICN because KE doesn't serve it, and it's the major Skyteam hub in the region.

Without a JV with KE, there's some incentive for DL to serve LAX-ICN, but it's questionable how well they'd hold up against KE, aside of the captive elite market who already doesn't earn full credit for flying on KE. If DL had the same FF reciprocity you see in oneworld or Star, customers would have no barriers to flying on the alliance partner. But, we all know how DL feels about their non-JV "partners".

IIRC, DL announced LAX-SYD about the same time the JV with VA was announced. I was directly working with VA on their startup, and the loads they were generating at the time were less than enthusiastic. They had to give away their business class product (which was better than QF's) by pricing it at half of what QF was getting at the time. Linking up with DL gave them an instant shot in the arm, and it was good for both airlines. Mutual benefit. That's where a JV works.

There's no need to do that with QF & AA. There's no need to do that with CX & AA, either. Both are the dominant players in their home markets, and the only people who think that the airline needs to be there are employees who've been brainwashed into thinking that an airline has to fly its own metal to be viewed as important.

You can continue to beat the drums about how other airlines are less successful because they don't follow DL's way of business, but it doesn't mean it's the only way to be successful. Customer behavior certainly proves otherwise. So does the experience of the 90% of airlines involved in alliances who choose to leverage that and *not* overlay each other's point to point flying.

wrong.

KE DOES fly SEA-ICN.

DL flies it because S. Korea is one of the top markets in Asia and you have to serve it if you want . Probably the same reason AA operates to the same five cities from DFW.

and DL operates five Asian flights from DTW, the difference being that HKG is replaced with NGO which more closely reflects the business market from DTW.

 

[robbedagain]

lit bit off here but I found an interesting article in which Air Asia X will begin a Kuala Lumpur-Osaka-HNL with A330 aircraft   (sorry don't remember the link.. may be airways magazine via fb)    

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

With Air Asia X, you might mean the A350 not the A380 (unless I'm mistaken).

 

[WorldTraveler]

he didn't say anything about the A380

 

[FrugalFlyerv2.0]

Sorry, I misread the A330 as A380.  My apologies robbed  (just cleaned my glasses).

 

[topDawg]

Please don't develop WT-itis and start denying you posted what you posted.  I quote from the post in which you responded to one of my posts...

"The s**t storm that would happen if DL dropped a route like LAX-SYD to Virgin here would be epic from people like yourself."

Now read carefully...since you were responding to my post, yourself would be me. Now go back and read my response again.
 
"You could not be more wrong.  I would have to take lessons to even care what the hell DL does."

ah roger, 
 
to that point, I don't really believe that. 
 
You might not really care but you and many other would be posting just because of the typical Delta defense from WT. 

 

[robbedagain]

  np Frugal!

 

[WorldTraveler]

ah roger, 
 
to that point, I don't really believe that. 
 
You might not really care but you and many other would be posting just because of the typical Delta defense from WT.

they post what they do because of their dislike for DL which is really for me.

of course what they really don't like is the facts that they try to ignore - such as that DL is in fact the largest int'l carrier at LAX not only now in terms of local int'l passengers but also in terms of seats by this summer when the PVG flight starts.

 

[eolesen]

You might not really care but you and many other would be posting just because o.f the typical Delta defense from WT.

I'm sure that there would be a few people wanting to rub it in WT's nose, since that's what he does daily over in the AA, AS, and WN forum as soon as there's a whiff of a negative story, but I think Jim's right that most people could give a rats ass what DL does.

Frankly, if DL were never mentioned again outside the DL forum, and AA were never mentioned in the DL forum, these boards would be a much more civil environment.

 

[WorldTraveler]

kinda like "Tokyo is a dead hub and DL is dying there" kind of nonsense (except it is a great hub or AA's JV partner JL)

kinda like "DL will have its butt handed to it on a platter by WN in ATL" kind of nonsense except just the opposite has happened.

kinda like "AA will have so many gates that it can just steamroll the competition - on both sides of the Pacific" even though DL is the largest int'l airline at LAX - and JFK today - and manages to do with a fraction of the gates AA has at LAX. and then DL is adding seats to PVG while AA is shrinking.

have we mentioned before that DL is adding more seats at PVG by Aug compared to year ago than any other non-Chinese carrier - while AA is shrinking - but not near as much as JL.

or that DL is now getting the highest average fares between PVG and the US with the highest percentage of US originating traffic.

or that Skyteam carriers will have nearly 2/3 of the capacity between LAX and PVG once DL adds its flight.

Mr. Anderson's comments about DL taking a larger and larger role at PVG are based on solid performance and growth which is particularly notable given that United has had a 30 year head start in developing the China market and yet DL is now competing very well not just against UA but also making it very likely that performance on AA's LAX-PVG flight will move back with DL's entrance into the market.

and given that DL has added capacity to PVG every year, it would appear that it isn't too early to be thinking about what DL will add to China in 2016. NYC, ATL, more LAX, secondary China from SEA?