Finally; Non-stops from Dallas to LGA---

[WNMECH]

http://southwest.investorroom.com/2014-01-23-Southwest-Airlines-Reports-Record-Fourth-Quarter-And-Full-Year-Profit-41st-Consecutive-Year-Of-Profitability

Yeah right. Yawn.
When is this supposed to start.
We are recording record profits.

http://m.prnewswire.com/news-releases/southwest-airlines-reports-record-fourth-quarter-and-full-year-profit-41st-consecutive-year-of-profitability-241632001.html

 

[WNMECH]

WT wants to act like Delta never was forced into bankruptcy.
A lot of things are legal processes. Like divorce, it dosent mean things are going good.

Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

I hope WT can as easily dismiss Deltas next bankruptcy. The former shareholders, credit holders and retierees won't brush it off like that.

 

[WorldTraveler]

so I can keep reminding you that WN's very existence is due to having sued the heck out of everyone in order to get the company started at DAL and keep it that way.



Let us know what other company has fought as hard as WN is to serve any airport and keep competitors out.

I'm all ears

 

[WNMECH]

so I can keep reminding you that WN's very existence is due to having sued the heck out of everyone in order to get the company started at DAL and keep it that way.Let us know what other company has fought as hard as WN is to serve any airport and keep competitors out.I'm all ears

You can remind me of the huge success Herb had keeping WN at Love Field. It had an effect on SWA surviving in the early years, but not now. The wright amendment caused more harm to SWA the last 30 plus years and protected DFW based airlines from WN not the other way around.

However, Deltas and NWA bankruptcies are the only reason they are making money today.
Without failing so miserably and being forced to file for bankruptcy,those two airlines would not be in the position they are today. So you don't mind me reminding you that every argument you make about any present success Delta shows today, are solely because they and NWA failed.

You can spin it all day long, but no person on their right mind thinks bankruptcy means you are successful.

 

[WorldTraveler]

I have never said that the BKs of the legacy airlines aren't a big part of why they are succeeding.... but BK is legal, it has been used by all of the legacy airlines which have twice as much history as WN, and were subjected to decades of being knocked around by the low fare carriers, including WN, although WN largely found its niches and stayed out of direct competition with WN until WN became such a nationwide airline and even with 30% connections started significantly impacting connecting markets that the legacies competed in.

I have consistently argued that the WA has been a tremendously protective law for AA and its DFW hub and that the fall of the WA is going to have a much bigger impact on AA and the N. Texas market than the AA fanclub wants to believe. Even if every other market from DAL is an example, WN at the minimum will reduce fares long enough based on the long-term strategic value of serving DAL longhaul and will do so long enough to gain a solid half of the market share that AA and other other carriers have from DFW.

I have no doubts that WN will succeed at DAL and have consistently said so.

My beef has long been that WN thinks they should be entitled to completely dominate DAL and its facilities to the exclusion of every other airline including the legacies when it was WN itself that made the decision to stay at DAL from the beginning and not compete at DFW. The argument that the legacy carriers can compete from DFW is a red herring since WN could as well but they have consistently gone down the road of not wanting to do so. N. Texas airline consumers should not be subjected to higher fares and less service because WN and AA have continued to pursue the same type of separate by equal mindset that was the market of the segregated era in the US.

Every US carrier should be free to compete at DAL and WN should also be free to add flights from DFW. The whole WA and its multiple revisions is completely anti-consumer and the fact that doj.obama.gov failed to recognize and push to dismantle it is the travesty of the whole AA/US merger agreements.

I have no doubts that WN will adapt and win in the marketplace... but the legacy carriers have gained enormous competitive advantages that WN doesn't have and it is WN that is trying to play catch up.

The fact that multiple publications are now saying what I have been saying about WN for years on here is proof that I am a whole lot more aware of the trends that are shaping this industry than a lot of people here want to admit.

Again, I respect WN, believe they will succeed, but WN is not the airline that it once was, including by having the competitive advantages that allowed WN to grow unchecked for years.

The competitive environment in any industry is continually changing.... for now, the legacy carriers have an advantage and DL is by far the most aggressive at pushing its advantages, again, partly because DL pulled off the first megamerger, did it before the ink had even dried on most of the other airlines' merger documents, and DL is now reaping the benefits that include regaining market share that other legacy carriers gave up.

Add in that DL has long had a much more competitive mindset than other legacy carriers and it is no surprise that DL and WN will be sparring in the marketplace for years to come.

This IS the airline industry which is supposed to be competitive and previous US government officials said that is exactly what they want. The fact that the current administration is getting wishy washy about competition now that DL and other legacy carriers are positioned to compete with whatever comes along will not change the rebalancing of the industry that will come in the next few years.
IF WN is really as good as it has been in the past, they will have no problem adapting and winning in the marketplace and two more gates at DAL will not significantly affect the outcome one way or another.

 

[eolesen]

When WN sued to compete at an airport they wanted to serve, it was bad.

When DL threatens to sue to compete at an airport, it is good.

Two wrongs don't make a Wright.

 

[WorldTraveler]

it is Wright and Right for every airline to be able to compete at any airport.

I didn't say it was Wrong for WN to have sued to be able to fly from DAL... as long as the LUV children are willing to admit that others can and will do the same thing.

The Wright Amendment was and is anti-consumer and needs to be completely dismantled.

AA's ability to compete at DAL should have never been tied to the merger, WN should be free to fly from DFW, and any other carrier should be able to fly from both airports even if that means WN has to accommodate that growth out of the gates it has squatted on for decades until WN's percentage of operations at DAL are no higher for any other carrier at any other hub airport.

It is time for Congress to fully and completely get rid of all of the vestiges of anti-competitive behavior that has characterized N. Texas aviation for decades and for AA and WN to both fully face whatever the market can throw at it.

 

[700UW]

Can everyone compete at LGA and DCA?
 
Nope, they cant, they have to obtain slots and if US and AA didnt merge WN nor B6 would have been able to compete and grow at those two airports.
 
Would DL have been able to grow in LGA unless the slot swap deal want done?

 

[Kev3188]

Two wrongs don't make a Wright.

They do when it fits the narrative...

 

[swamt]

C'mon WT, we've been thru all this.  SWA is not going to give up any gates for another airline to use.  Look at it this way.  In ATL Delta should be forced to give up say 2-4 gates for other airlines to use.  Delta wouldn't do it, and neither will SWA...

 

[does this plane go to paris]

The 30Billion dollar Market cap that that someone was gloating about the other day is down 750Million.  Wall Street must be reading these boards and seeing who the Cheerleaders for the widget are and coming to their conclusions.

 

[WorldTraveler]

Can everyone compete at LGA and DCA?
 
Nope, they cant, they have to obtain slots and if US and AA didnt merge WN nor B6 would have been able to compete and grow at those two airports.
 
Would DL have been able to grow in LGA unless the slot swap deal want done?

and all of those airports have mechanisms to allow for the exchange of slots and to accommodate new entrant airlines.

There is nothing yet that has been announced that says that DAL will be able to do the same.

No other carrier at a limited access airport controls as high of a percent of the gates or slots as WN does even now at DAL with little to no chance for any meaningful entrance of other carriers.

Carry on as long as you want but the issue of access to DAL is and will be a contentious issue that will be pushed until it is resolved - and if that comes at the cost of WN's existing facilities, so be it.
 
 

C'mon WT, we've been thru all this.  SWA is not going to give up any gates for another airline to use.  Look at it this way.  In ATL Delta should be forced to give up say 2-4 gates for other airlines to use.  Delta wouldn't do it, and neither will SWA...

and again, ATL has gates available for other carriers to use and for WN to expand if they wanted to.

not true about DAL  
 

The 30Billion dollar Market cap that that someone was gloating about the other day is down 750Million.  Wall Street must be reading these boards and seeing who the Cheerleaders for the widget are and coming to their conclusions.

new to the financial markets?

take a look at the past year or even three months.

one data point does not a trend make esp. on a day that the market as a whole is down.

 

[eolesen]

The Wright Amendment was and is anti-consumer and needs to be completely dismantled.

...

It is time for Congress to fully and completely get rid of all of the vestiges of anti-competitive behavior that has characterized N. Texas aviation for decades and for AA and WN to both fully face whatever the market can throw at it.

OK, then roll it all back, including the ability for DAL to remain open.

After all, if you want to remove *all* vestiges of what's characterized the North Texas aviation landscape, you'd have to hit the undo button all the way back to the point where both Dallas and Fort Worth agreed to close their respective airports and team up on the construction of DFW.

Good luck making that happen, WT.

 

[swamt]

Yes E, and it would also include to allow international flights from DAL, that is if it were all undone completely...

 

[eolesen]

Uh, no. DAL would be closed to interstate commercial traffic if everything were undone, and WN would have to move over to DFW (which might not be the worst thing given population shifts in the Metromess).