First Paycheck for 2013 less than 2012

[swamt]

I did not know the topic of this thread was having babies in this country for a fee and citizenship. Seems far from a shorted paycheck for 2013... C'mon guys, back to the topic.

 

[Flying low]

I did not know the topic of this thread was having babies in this country for a fee and citizenship. Seems far from a shorted paycheck for 2013... C'mon guys, back to the topic.

Not very many threads "stay on topic"....

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I did not know the topic of this thread was having babies in this country for a fee and citizenship. Seems far from a shorted paycheck for 2013... C'mon guys, back to the topic.

Sorry

 

[La Li Lu Le Lo]

View attachment 9637

 

[cf6mech]

Really? Or are you repeating lies your teacher told you during the Cold War? Can you cite any examples of that from Socialists countries? I have relations in China, a Communist country, and people get paid differently at different levels.

Not promoting it just dont like to see such propoaganda go unchallenged. I've read the writings of Adam Smith and Karl Marx, both bring up valid points, there are benefits to competition and inspiring and rewarding ingenuity but there are also benefits to not allowing those who were disproportionatly blessed (with either intellect or chutzpa) from using their power to disenfranchise those who are not. Everyone who contributes to the functioning of a society should benefit from its output.

Wow!..... thats one of the most anti capitalist/un-American statements I've heard in quite a while....Jesus !, I like to look to famous men like John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Lincoln,....Not Karl Marxs, ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME ?,...speaking of Lincoln here is one of his quotes that you should heed .......

''That some should be rich, shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built.''

 

[blue collar]

How is that anti-capitalist or un-American?

Is it because he mentions marx? Or because he said that marx had some valid points? You and marx have something in common - you both look up to Lincoln..

 

[Bob Owens]

Wow!..... thats one of the most anti capitalist/un-American statements I've heard in quite a while....Jesus !, I like to look to famous men like John Adams, Thomas Jefferson, and Lincoln,....Not Karl Marxs, ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME ?,...speaking of Lincoln here is one of his quotes that you should heed .......

''That some should be rich, shows that others may become rich, and hence is just encouragement to industry and enterprise. Let not him who is houseless pull down the house of another; but let him labor diligently and build one for himself, thus by example assuring that his own shall be safe from violence when built.''

Keep sticking your head in the sand.

Lincoln wrote this as well;

It is not needed, nor fitting here [in discussing the Civil War] that a general argument should be made in favor of popular institutions; but there is one point, with its connections, not so hackneyed as most others, to which I ask a brief attention. It is the effect to place capital on an equal footing with, if not above, labor, in the structure of government. It is assumed that labor is available only in connection with capital; that nobody labors unless somebody else, owning capital, somehow by the use of it induces him to labor. This assumed, it is next considered whether it is best that capital shall hire laborers, and thus induce them to work by their own consent, or buy them, and drive them to it without their consent. Having proceeded thus far, it is naturally concluded that all laborers are either hired laborers or what we call slaves. And further, it is assumed that whoever is once a hired laborer is fixed in that condition for life.

Now, there is no such relation between capital and labor as assumed, nor is there any such thing as a free man being fixed for life in the condition of a hired laborer. Both these assumptions are false, and all inferences from them are groundless.
"Labor is prior to, and independent of, capital. Capital is only the fruit of labor, and could never have existed if labor had not first existed. Labor is the superior of capital, and deserves much the higher consideration. Capital has its rights, which are as worthy of protection as any other rights.

A few years after Lincolns death the courts granted Capital rights that Lincoln, nor any of the founding fathers, ever would have thought possible, rights that elevated Capital, in the form of Corporations not only equal but far above those of people.

I have a Bumper Sticker that says "I will believe that corporations are people after Texas executes one".

 

[cf6mech]

Weak, you are the one praising Marxs. I don't think Marxs and Lincoln share anything in common idealogically, nor do I think he would throw the baby out with the bath water on his beliefs in this countrys foundation because a few laws were passed,you,.. not I have your head in the sand on what this country was founded under.

 

[signals]

...and here we thought the thread derailed when we talked about the foreign babies

So what more can we say about our incredibly shrinking checks?

 

[eolesen]

So what more can we say about our incredibly shrinking checks?

It's going to result in a lot of people pulling back on their spending. That means the recession continues, or possibly gets worse.

 

[Kev3188]

How is that anti-capitalist or un-American?

Is it because he mentions marx? Or because he said that marx had some valid points? You and marx have something in common - you both look up to Lincoln..

Exactly.

The working class creates the wealth; they should control it.

 

[Bob Owens]

Weak, you are the one praising Marxs. I don't think Marxs and Lincoln share anything in common idealogically, nor do I think he would throw the baby out with the bath water on his beliefs in this countrys foundation because a few laws were passed,you,.. not I have your head in the sand on what this country was founded under.

Where did I "praise" Marx. I said I've read some of his stuff along with Adam Smith's and that both made some valid points. Have you read any of the writings either of them or are you just repeating what you have been told?

What is your view of what this country was founded under? Do you think the founding fathers bought into the idea of wealth creation through limited liability? Alexander Hamilton, yes , no doubt, but not most of the "God fearing founding Fathers" who the right likes to cite. They were very suspicious of the whole scheme where people would distance themselves from liability while reaping the rewards from the actions of Corporations. In fact corporations had to be specific as to what their purpose was, what the benfit to society was, and how long they were to exist. While I agree that corprations do provide us the comforts we enjoy I do not believe that Corporations should have a place in the political arena nor do I believe they should enjoy all the rights of citizens as their owners could very well be people who are not citizens of this country.