Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[topDawg]

Do you not realize that IAM FS at NW was doing it already except where AMFA was staffed?
 
I dont agree with what was done, but it was DL 143 and Bobby DePace, who had a vendetta against AMFA.
 
Myself and Kevin were IAM members at the time and he worked at NW and didnt perform stuck work, nor did I, but I was at US.
 
And AMFA lost the work when NW imposed the CBA.

I understand completely. IAM wasn't doing the work, even if it was on a station to station level, and then once the AMFA went on strike IAM started doing the work. That is scabing. 
 
I am not calling You or Kev a scab, but your union is trash for what they did. Its as simple as that. As a mechanic the IAM has done more to destroy my class more so than any other union period. The helped break the backs of AMFA and gutted UAs operations too. As worthless as the TWU is at least they are still leading the industry in scope. 

 

[700UW]

First of all the IAM didnt go on strike at NW.
 
And the IAM Scope language for Mechanic and Related is better than any other CBA out there.
 
AA they can farm out 35% of the total maintenance budget.
 
UA/CO outsources almost everything, WN does four lines of C-Checks in-house for over 600 Airplanes.
 
At US no line maintenance can be outsourced and 50% of billable hours of heavy maintenance must be done in-house.
 
And Chapter 11, SARS, the Gulf Wars and fuel prices had nothing to do with the loss of work right?
 
And non-union carriers like yourself harm the mechanics more than anything.

 

[700UW]

 

[700UW]

 

[WorldTraveler]

excuse me but Northwest Airlines doesn't exist anymore.

any attempts to try to equate what happened at NW with what might happen at DL are flawed from the very first sentence.

and it is worth noting that those statements didn't stop NW from putting an end to AMFA and 500 of the airline's highest paid ground workers.

so much for great work with their unions.

and regardless of what 401ks were originally designed to be, they are the primary retirement vehicle for the vast majority of American workers, the defined pension benefit system in the US is broken, and there are NO workers who would prefer to have a defined benefit pension and risk termination and loss of benefits. and terminated pension plans DO NOT provide equal benefits in all benefits to what those employees received when the pensions were operated by the airlines - or what airlines that still have FROZEN plans provide.

and the IRS and Dept. of Labor say that DC plans are pensions. to try to argue that DC plans are not pensions is nothing but a lie.

 

[700UW]

Who is the CEO at DL?
Who has a great relationship with its unionized pilots?
 
Who has settled their contracts early with their unionized pilots?
 
A 401k is not a pension plan, if it was, it would be protected by the PBGC, and everyone with a 401k would have to pay the fee to insure it to the PBGC against failure.
 
A 401k is a supplemental retirement account.
 
Everyone in the airlines who had a pension frozen or terminated except the pilots will see the same amount of benefits paid for the years they were in the plan.  I know I have a terminated pension which I will collect in two years.  My benefit level is not reduced for the 17 years in the plan.

 

[topDawg]

First of all the IAM didnt go on strike at NW.

Sorry, I edited it to what i meant. My bad. 
 

And the IAM Scope language for Mechanic and Related is better than any other CBA out there.

Not even remotely close. 
 
 

AA they can farm out 35% of the total maintenance budget.

and is a TWU carrier with a TWU contract. We have yet to see if the IAM will even be at AA much less if they will be able to hang onto that scope clause. 
(and of course if they are willing to. Very possible they sell out again) 
 
 

UA/CO outsources almost everything,

Not even remotely true. They outsource less than US does. 
 

WN does four lines of C-Checks in-house for over 600 Airplanes.

Started at zero....now they are up to 4. Yeah, that damn AMFA....bringing in work and building from ground zero. They should do more selling out of scope like the IAM. 
 
 

At US no line maintenance can be outsourced

I call BS here. If that is the case US must have a metric ton of line stations. 

 

and 50% of billable hours of heavy maintenance must be done in-house.

 you are bragging about being at 50% outsourcing? This is a joke right? 
 

And Chapter 11, SARS, the Gulf Wars and fuel prices had nothing to do with the loss of work right?

IAM has yet to have a contract tossed by a judge. They agreed to every single cut. 
 
oh and of course Delta didn't have to worry about all those issues. 
 
 

And non-union carriers like yourself harm the mechanics more than anything.

Lol thats cute. Is that because we dont lay around and get ass raped like the rest of you? 
Lets see
Everyone wants our pay...Clearly that is bad for the industry
We have the the largest airline MRO in North America. No union carrier is even remotely close to that. Yeah, clearly bad for our class. 
We are second in the level of outsourcing and the lowest makes a lot, a lot, less than we do. 
 
Delta has its problems, but we aren't the problem. Suck ass unions like the IAM that sell out all the time are the problem. 

 

[topDawg]

Who is the CEO at DL?
Who has a great relationship with its unionized pilots?
 
Who has settled their contracts early with their unionized pilots?
 
A 401k is not a pension plan, if it was, it would be protected by the PBGC, and everyone with a 401k would have to pay the fee to insure it to the PBGC against failure.
 
A 401k is a supplemental retirement account.
 
Everyone in the airlines who had a pension frozen or terminated except the pilots will see the same amount of benefits paid for the years they were in the plan.  I know I have a terminated pension which I will collect in two years.  My benefit level is not reduced for the 17 years in the plan.

You are both correct. The government looks at 401Ks as somewhat pensions but it is not on the same level as a DB plan. 
 
however depending on how you manage your 401K, company funding and matches it can be just as good as a DB plan. 

 

[Kev3188]

Hirst is still at DL, BTW...

 

[WorldTraveler]

so is Anderson.

DL and NW are completely different airlines.

to try to equate "peaceful" labor relations at NW (which included the elimination of 5000 jobs) as if something similar will happen at DL is seriously flawed logic.

 

[700UW]

UA doesnt do anything above a C-Check, they just did a few A320s inhouse.
 
Anything over a C is farmed out along with most of their Cs.
 
They have closed everything except SFO Base.
 
WN had three lines of check inhouse before AMFA, they got the fourth line inhouse in exchange for WN to outsource planes to Aeroman in San Salvador.
 
Wrong, our CBA in the Chapter 11 2004/2005 was abrogated by Judge Stephen Mitchell.
 
US does more airframe overhaul than any carrier in the US.
 
How many airframes does DL overhaul inhouse?
 
How much does it cost to fly an empty plane to SIN for cabin mods?
 
Are you taking lessons from World Fraudster?

 

[topDawg]

UA doesnt do anything above a C-Check, they just did a few A320s inhouse.

Unless something has changed they do 737 overhauls at HOU. There was also a thread on here that said they were doing Airbus overhauls now too.


 

Anything over a C is farmed out along with most of their Cs.

read above, but also they do engine overhauls on PW2000s, PW4000-94s, PW4000-110 and the PW2000s for the USAF C17 fleet. How many engines does US do in-house again?  
 

They have closed everything except SFO Base.

The base a hobby(HOU) they got from CO is still there and, AFAIK does 737 overhauls.


 

WN had three lines of check inhouse before AMFA, they got the fourth line inhouse in exchange for WN to outsource planes to Aeroman in San Salvador.

 I'm to lazy to fact check that, so even if it is true.......they are adding work. US, the only IAM carrier, isn't.
 

Wrong, our CBA in the Chapter 11 2004/2005 was abrogated by Judge Stephen Mitchell.

Okay, it was my understanding that it had not happened at US. Having said that, where are the scope improvements after 2005?
 
 

US does more airframe overhaul than any carrier in the US.

I don't believe they do more than AA, but even if they do, that is one metric. Don't airframe overhauls and shipping out everything else to the point where 50% of your work is gone isn't something to be happy about. Thats Delta logic.
 

How many airframes does DL overhaul inhouse?

none. I said we have problems, still do more work in-house than US though...... 
 
 

How much does it cost to fly an empty plane to SIN for cabin mods?

a lot. How much does it cost to end an engine to Europe for overhaul? 
 
 

Are you taking lessons from World Fraudster?

nope. Stating the facts. 

 

[700UW]

Funny US isnt adding work?
 
They brought seats and the 757s back in-house.
 
In 2005 after our CBA was abrogated the company had unlimited farmout, in 2008 in the transition agreement, that was changed to 50% of billable heavy maintenance hours.
 
US has power by the hour, on its engines.
 
US only did JT8s and Tays in-house.
 
And UA did one A320 in-house last summer, not sure if they are doing anymore.
 
And CO farms out everything over a C, they dont do overhaul.

 

[topDawg]

Funny US isnt adding work?

you have the worst scope of the legacy carriers and it hasn't really gotten better.


 

They brought seats and the 757s back in-house.

if the IAM was so great it would be more than that. Hell we have added more work than that. Just the 320/330 c-check lines are worth more than the small 757 fleet you have.

 

In 2005 after our CBA was abrogated the company had unlimited farmout, in 2008 in the transition agreement, that was changed to 50% of billable heavy maintenance hours.

so in 8 years the IAM has done nothing.

 

US has power by the hour, on its engines.

Point?
 

US only did JT8s and Tays in-house.

again point?

And UA did one A320 in-house last summer, not sure if they are doing anymore.

couldn't tell you. I would find it odd that they geared up for 320s overhauls only for a few frames.

 

And CO farms out everything over a C, they dont do overhaul.

not my understanding but you might be right.

 

[700UW]

Worst Scope?

Dude you are taking a play out of World Fraudsters book.
 
35% of the total maintenance budget is more outsourcing than 50% of HMV billable hours.
 
UA outsources most heavy as does WN.

US does more airframes inhouse than anyone.
 
http://www.airlineforums.com/topic/57308-united-overhauling-airbuss-in-california/
 
The IAM was in Section 6 negotiations and just got a bridge agreement last summer until they go into JCBA with AA.