Grassroots Efforts at DL for ACS and FAs, no personal attacks.

[700UW]

no one has said that Kev scabbed work.

but the IAM DID seek work that AMFA did.

and UA's CBA is just as much of the IAM's track record as PMUS'

if the IAM saw how bad this was going to turn out, they should have returned dues money and said we can't represent you or put our name on the CBA - but they didn't.

and the CBA DOES have the IAM's name on it just like a lot of other CBAs do that ended up costing lots of jobs.

When are you ever going to be honest, instead of lying and being world fraudster?
 
The language was ALREADY in the IAM Fleet CBA and was for years, the ramp did more ancillary duties even before AMFA went out on strike.
 
When AMFA walked NW imposed new terms on maintenance and took away, receipt and dispatch, airstarts, and deicing.

The language was already in the IAM CBA.
 
The members voted down one CBA at UA,. and ratified the second, the members ratified it, not the Negotiating Committee, not the District and not the International.
 
Is that too hard to understand the members used their democratic right and approved the TA at UA?

 

[700UW]

 

[700UW]

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/17596/delta_airlines_union
 

 
Inter-union rivalry has been largely put aside for this new attempt to organize the Delta attendants, IAM’s Carlson adds, and the AFA-CWA has officially endorsed the IAM campaign. Likewise, a second union representing flight attendants—the Association of Professional Flight Attendants—has also endorsed the IAM effort, Carlson says.
 

 

[eolesen]

right now they aren't temporary but look at the leadership before this round.... 
 
I don't know if, other than Gerry because he retired and was at Delta for years and then WA before that, any of those CEOs are having anything to do with the industry. Most of the ones that ran the companies into the ground in the 90s are also gone. (I know thats the case for the majority of the upper management at Delta. Hell I think Ron Allen is the CEO of one of the auto parts stores now.....)

There are a couple factors at play as to why you don't see them showing up at another airline, Dawg. For the most part, once you've been at the C-level, you're typically out of consideration to go work at another airline for some period of time due to the non-competes which are standard condition in any employment agreement at a senior management level and above.

The choice for a departed CEO is simple -- you either get paid to sit on your hands for a couple years while you run out the clock on your non-compete, or you go work in another industry.

I could bother to go thru the list of CEO's prior to the current incumbents, but it's not going to show much of a difference. The only CEO I can think of who wasn't a lifer at their airline was Glenn Tilton, who was recruited away from Chevron/Texaco to head up UA. Can't say if that one worked as planned or not, but he did stick around for ~8 years, and didn't leave for a year or so after the merger with CO.

 

[700UW]

 

[WorldTraveler]

the only liar is you in thinking that DL will agree to anything including a pension.

DL FAs who worked for DL before BK have a frozen pension. UA and US do not.

theirs was terminated.

there is no assurance - and a whole lot of likelihood that DL would never agree to a pension and DL FAs would never want the IAMNPF because it would actually give them LESS in retirement benefits than what they have now.

You are doing all you can to sell something that no one wants and is worth less; if you were really as confident of the service you would sell, you wouldn't mind telling the truth - but you won't tell the truth so you push every kind of distortion possible.

don't worry... DL is doing a great job of countering most of the stuff that you post here - they just do it internally to their FAs.

too bad you aren't family so don't get to see what they say

 

[700UW]

US and UA FAs have a terminated pension which will stay pay them the same exact amount if it was frozen.

PMCO FAs have a pension.
 
The Ramp and CSA at UA have a pension, the ramp and maintenance at US have a pension.
 
Hmm, what do they all have in common at US and UA?

They are all represented by the IAM.
 
Once again a 401k is not a pension.
 
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/retirement/great-401-k-experiment-has-failed-many-americans-n327321
 

 
But shifting the responsibility for growing retirement income from employers to individuals has proved problematic for many American workers, particularly in the face of wage stagnation and a lack of investment expertise. For them, the grand 401(k) experiment has been a failure.
 
"401(k)s were never designed as the nation's primary retirement system," said Anthony Webb, a research economist at the Center for Retirement Research. "They came to be that as a historical accident."
 

 
And the IAM nor the AFA, agreed to a pension termination, and who has their pension terminated at DL?

That would be the pilots.

 

[metopower]

US and UA FAs have a terminated pension which will stay pay them the same exact amount if it was frozen.
PMCO FAs have a pension.
 
The Ramp and CSA at UA have a pension, the ramp and maintenance at US have a pension.
 
Hmm, what do they all have in common at US and UA?
They are all represented by the IAM.
 
Once again a 401k is not a pension.
 
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/retirement/great-401-k-experiment-has-failed-many-americans-n327321
 
 
And the IAM nor the AFA, agreed to a pension termination, and who has their pension terminated at DL?
That would be the pilots.

the one with a union

 

[700UW]

And why dont you tell the board what PMDL Pilots get and PMNW pilots get for their DCPs?

 

[topDawg]

The IAM did not go out and find replacements for AMFA workers.
 
Ancillary duties did not break AMFA at NW.
 
The language was already in the NW IAM CBA for fleet to perform the work, and even before the strike the IAM FS did more ancillary work than AMFA members.

Thats a horse **** excuse. 
 
Who was doing the work before the strike? AMFA....who did it during the strike? IAM....that is doing struck work. If it was any other union IAM wouldn't have touched it. 
 

There are a couple factors at play as to why you don't see them showing up at another airline, Dawg. For the most part, once you've been at the C-level, you're typically out of consideration to go work at another airline for some period of time due to the non-competes which are standard condition in any employment agreement at a senior management level and above.

The choice for a departed CEO is simple -- you either get paid to sit on your hands for a couple years while you run out the clock on your non-compete, or you go work in another industry.

I could bother to go thru the list of CEO's prior to the current incumbents, but it's not going to show much of a difference. The only CEO I can think of who wasn't a lifer at their airline was Glenn Tilton, who was recruited away from Chevron/Texaco to head up UA. Can't say if that one worked as planned or not, but he did stick around for ~8 years, and didn't leave for a year or so after the merger with CO.

Leo and Ron aren't still under no competes. It has been almost 20 years for Ron and 12 or so for Leo..... 

 

[700UW]

Do you not realize that IAM FS at NW was doing it already except where AMFA was staffed?
 
I dont agree with what was done, but it was DL 143 and Bobby DePace, who had a vendetta against AMFA.
 
Myself and Kevin were IAM members at the time and he worked at NW and didnt perform stuck work, nor did I, but I was at US.
 
And AMFA lost the work when NW imposed the CBA.

 

[WorldTraveler]

US and UA FAs have a terminated pension which will stay pay them the same exact amount if it was frozen.
PMCO FAs have a pension.
 
The Ramp and CSA at UA have a pension, the ramp and maintenance at US have a pension.
 
Hmm, what do they all have in common at US and UA?
They are all represented by the IAM.
 
Once again a 401k is not a pension.
 
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/retirement/great-401-k-experiment-has-failed-many-americans-n327321
 
 
And the IAM nor the AFA, agreed to a pension termination, and who has their pension terminated at DL?
That would be the pilots.

UA and US have TERMINATED not frozen pensions.


and the IRS and Dept. of Labor BOTH say that Defined Contribution pension plans ARE pensions.

we've discussed this before.

 

[700UW]

A 401K is not a pension, its a supplemental retirement account.
 
Funny mechanic and related, fleet service and maintenance training specialist all have a Defined Benefit Plan as a pension, as does UA Ramp, Stores, CSA and RES, which is current, not frozen and not terminated.
 
Their OLD Defined Benefit Plans are terminated.
 
Can you not read?
 

 
US and UA FAs have a terminated pension which will stay pay them the same exact amount if it was frozen.
PMCO FAs have a pension.
 
 

 

[WorldTraveler]

doesn't matter what you call it.

the IRS and Dept. of Labor says both are pensions

and the retirement benefits from the IAMNPF that those airline employees are getting is less than what AA and DL employees get via their FROZEN pensions plus their 401ks post BK.

and you never seem to want to talk about the retirement program at WN. why is that?

wait, wait, I know.

because WN employees DON'T HAVE a defined benefit pension plan and they have the RICHEST RETIREMENT benefits in the US airline industry.

 

[700UW]

Of course its less at the moment, as they havent been in the plan as long as they were in their terminated pensions.
 
 
A 401k is not a pension, it was never designed to be one.
 
No one should be forced to use their own money to fund their retirement and no one at any other airline gets a social security offset like DL FAs have.
 
Yes DL FAs get their frozen pension reduced when they start to collect social security, no one else in the industry has that done.
 
A defined benefit plan doesnt use your own pre-tax money to fund it.
 
And you still pay taxes on your 401k when you collect it.
 
http://www.nbcnews.com/business/retirement/great-401-k-experiment-has-failed-many-americans-n327321
 

It wasn't supposed to work out this way.


 
The 401(k) account came into being quietly, as a clause in the Revenue Act of 1978. The clause said employees could choose to defer some compensation until retirement, and they would not be taxed until that time. (Companies had long offered deferred compensation arrangements, but employers and the IRS had been going back and forth about their tax treatment.)
 
"401(k)s were never designed as the nation's primary retirement system," said Anthony Webb, a research economist at the Center for Retirement Research. "They came to be that as a historical accident."