I'll just leave this here....

[Glenn Quagmire]

He still does "aviation analysis" work for CNN. He has covered the Germanwings crash among others. I don't think he is an employee, but just a hired consultant.

 

[Kev3188]

He covered both MH incidents as well, IIRC. Seems like more of a guy they go to for round tables or longer discussions, as opposed to the soundbite (see: Schiavo, Mary) crowd.

 

[WorldTraveler]

so, he's outsourced, right?

CNN does better by having an expert they can call on when a major incident happens but who can keep involved in the professional aviation community so he has fresh skills to offer when the need arises?

The option of course is for him to be a full-time employee of CNN who is not involved in the day to day aviation community but always available and talking about anything aviation related just because he is a staff aviation expert.

btw, what status is Dr. Sanjay Gupta? (sp?) he is CNN's longstanding medical expert. Is he a paid full-time staffer or a doctor who works in the medical community and does some work for CNN when they want and need?

 

[eolesen]

Like I said, he's freelance. When they want someone to sound credible on various topics, they have a list of people to call.

 

[topDawg]

If you want to advance a cause, trying to use the Frontline "expose" isn't where I'd be starting. There was lots of discussion on that four years ago, and it's a one sided hack piece. As I recall, it's a shock journalism piece that O'Brien filmed after getting fired from CNN, and a couple of other outlets passed on it before PBS finally nibbled on the hook.

Either way, it's entertainment at best, not investigative journalism.

I wouldn't call it a hack piece. 
Like it or not most of what was said is completely true. I know a few people that handle vendor management. 
 
I also know a few people who worked at that MRO as well as a few others (mostly TIMCO) before Delta or after they got laid off. FWIW i know one person who was so disgusted with TIMCO he went to work at a CVS. He said his A&P isn't worth the risk. 
 
I don't post stuff like this for my health. 
 

I know you'll have some weasel-words to try to salvage this incorrect statement, but DL outsources 100% of its heavy airframe overhauls, while WN now performs four lines of heavy maintenance at DAL.

Yes, DL insources some heavy airframe overhauls for other airlines, but that doesn't change the fact that DL outsources all of its mainline Delta heavy overhauls, and WN does not.
 

2-3 MD-88 overhausl? You're not saying that a heavy overhaul of an MD-88 costs $13 million to $20 million, are you? If so, I think that may be an over-estimate by a factor of 10.

Here's what AA says about airframe overhaul:
 

20k to 30k man-hours would equal $1.0 million to $1.5 million at $50/hr, plus parts.

I have no idea how much money the airlines save by outsourcing heavy airframe overhauls, but it outsourcing was more expensive, wouldn't airlines be insourcing more overhauls?

that is probably a little high you are right. 
But that "plus parts" is what adds the money. IIRC the 88s costs around 5m for overhaul. The bigger the plane the higher the number though. 
 
and when you figure most airplanes get 4 maybe 5 overhauls in its life you are talking about 20-30M over the life time of a plane. 
 
 
Note I am old and cant remember the numbers like i use to. Its possible that i am off, but they cost more than 1M. 
 

and if you haven't figured it out yet, dawg is a DL employee who will wants to be able to do heavy airframe overhauls despite the fact that DL says that dawg is trained, licensed and supposed to be smart enough to do lots of kinds of jobs.

but dawg doesn't like that answer so he has made an internet career out of deriding the company because they won't let him do what he wants to do.

I don't really want to do overhauls. I like what I do now. As i have tried to explain to you before, I don't just worry about getting mine like you do. 
 
I want Delta to do more ramp work. Does it have anything to do with me? nope. But for guys like Kev i want to see their QOL get better. 
 
and just because I don't believe that Delta can do no wrong like you doesn't mean i am deriding the company. 

 

and the bigger issue is if outsourced overhauls are the issues why dawg is focused on DL.

WN built its maintenance program from the beginning based on outsourced maintenance. DL has never outsourced as much as WN does and WN has never outsourced as little as DL has at its max.

and of course Parker has now discovered how much he can outsource at AA - a trick he learned at US where US outsourced more maintenance than any of the legacies.

deflection again. 
 
I am not just focused on DL. Its an industry problem. 
but what DL does has a direct effect on me. 
 
Not only that, but it chaps my ass that they have told us they send work out now not because of costs but simply because they don't want to do them anymore. 

 

[WorldTraveler]

and as much as it chaps you, DL can't reform the industry if no one else wants to go along. The reason why AA and UA and WN don't want any larger inhouse maintenance staffs than they have to have is because more union workers creates the potential for more problems. Vendors can just be fired; unionized employees that want to challenge management create huge problems. AMFA proved that at NW most recently.

that is why AA and UA don't want to do large scale inhouse maintenance.

and as much as you want to believe otherwise, DL would have to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in facilities and tooling in order to do as much of the work inhouse that they now send out. As hard as it is for you to accept, DL has choices of how to invest its capital and as long as the cost of doing inhouse work - including the cost to build those facilities is higher and there are outside companies that can do that work, then they will go with outside work. It isn't solely about the cost of each repair but the faciltiies that has to go with it. Airframe overhauls take up lots of space and no US airline has the space to do anywhere close to all of the work inhouse which they send out. DL insources what it does in part because the revenue per facility cost is high and DL doesn't have to spend enormous amounts on additional facilities.

further, has it occurred to you that DL has reason to keep its foot in the contract MRO space because they compete with other airlines for MRO space and time.

and as much as you think you have a responsibility to speak for others, DL will make the decision for each department based on the value of additional personnel for that department.

I totally agree that there are a lot of stations that I would like to see DL put its own personnel in additional stations, but I don't have access to the costs and benefits to do that and as much as you or anyone else want to think otherwise, it is a true dollars and cents decision. If it makes financial sense for DL to do it, they will.

 

[Kev3188]

I want Delta to do more ramp work. Does it have anything to do with me? nope. But for guys like Kev i want to see their QOL get better. 

We should be so lucky, but as it stands there is ZERO chance for them to insource any new points on the system (or reopen any, for that matter). Jmho...
 

and just because I don't believe that Delta can do no wrong like you doesn't mean i am deriding the company. 

Heresy!

 

[WorldTraveler]

if DL believes there is a financial benefit in having more of its own stations, they will do it.

They know what kind of on-time performance each station can pull off, they know baggage performance, the whole nine yards.

If you want more stations, you need to be able to demonstrate why they should do it.

DL holds Airbus and Boeing to no less of a standard in selling a new airplane.

DL is a MASTER at doing financial analysis and optimizing expenses and revenues to maximize profits.

I'll just leave that reality here.

 

[topDawg]

and as much as it chaps you, DL can't reform the industry if no one else wants to go along. The reason why AA and UA and WN don't want any larger inhouse maintenance staffs than they have to have is because more union workers creates the potential for more problems. Vendors can just be fired; unionized employees that want to challenge management create huge problems. AMFA proved that at NW most recently.

bull ****. Delta can do whatever they want with us. Keep beating the TAT/TBO times and wall street will be more than happy. I don't know why you feel like every airline must do the same things. That simply isn't the case. No one is going to say a word with Delta cost advantage, productivity and the time reduction.

that is why AA and UA don't want to do large scale inhouse maintenance.

good for them. I don't care.

and as much as you want to believe otherwise, DL would have to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in facilities and tooling in order to do as much of the work inhouse that they now send out. As hard as it is for you to accept, DL has choices of how to invest its capital and as long as the cost of doing inhouse work - including the cost to build those facilities is higher and there are outside companies that can do that work, then they will go with outside work. It isn't solely about the cost of each repair but the faciltiies that has to go with it. Airframe overhauls take up lots of space and no US airline has the space to do anywhere close to all of the work inhouse which they send out. DL insources what it does in part because the revenue per facility cost is high and DL doesn't have to spend enormous amounts on additional facilities.

bull **** number two. They just spent 55M in mexico. So don't tell me they can't build hangars when they are doing just that.

further, has it occurred to you that DL has reason to keep its foot in the contract MRO space because they compete with other airlines for MRO space and time.

Contract work has literally nothing to do with what Delta outsources. All the work Delta does in-house is on airplanes in the Delta fleet. Delta 737 comes in for overhaul, navy 737 takes its place. Delta 330 comes in for C-check, HA 330 takes it place.
I don't know why you keep assuming Delta has to cut it MRO to do work in-house. Even management doesn't use that scare tactic.

and as much as you think you have a responsibility to speak for others, DL will make the decision for each department based on the value of additional personnel for that department.

shut up and do as your told.

I totally agree that there Delta is always right and you need to shut up and do what they tell you. Like it. If not then leave.

FIFY

 

[topDawg]

We should be so lucky, but as it stands there is ZERO chance for them to insource any new points on the system (or reopen any, for that matter). Jmho...
 

Heresy!

get those cards sent in....

 

[WorldTraveler]

your problem, dawg, is that you haven't learned to work within a structure that you don't control. You just happen to be part of the percentage of employees that were never cut out for working for someone and you wouldn't be happy because you can't call the shots.

You couldn't come close to building a hangar and putting tools in it for $55M in the US whether Mexico flies or not.

and as much as you get bent out of shape about DL's outsourcing, keep in mind that AA and UA outsource AND DO NOT REPLACE THAT WORK WITH INSOURCED WORK.

I know full well that you will never accept the concept but DL does less net outsourcing than even PMAA when you factor in the insourcing that DL does.

and given that DL airport employees make more than their peers at every other legacy airline, a union would reduce pay - but it might make you and others feel more in control - as they watch their pay go down.

 

[700UW]

But AA does major maintenance inhouse and has a large maintenance operation, and does most of the overhaul of airframes in house, unlike DL who farms out all AO.

 

[Kev3188]

Oh, that's different...

(Sarcasm, of course)

 

[WorldTraveler]

again, the IAM cheerleader conveniently slides up the definition of maintenance so that they can include what makes AA and US look good and exclude what DL does.

it's really blind ignorance of the fact that maintenance composes many tasks that US esp. didn't choose to do including many engine overhauls and component maintenance which is why US had the highest amount of outsourcing as reported to the DOT of all US airlines.

but of course it's government and not union data so it is contaminated and wrong according to the IAM that won't admit it created a scope clause that US was able to fly an A380 thru

and because of US' extraordinarily level of maintenance outsourcing, AA and US on a combined basis have nearly identical amounts of outsourcing as DL.

and of course the biggest difference between AA/US and DL is that they DON"T insource so the work that is lost is, like, REALLY LOST.

 

[700UW]

Clueless the PMUS scope is very clear.
 
No line maintenance can be outsourced.
 
50% of billable heavy maintenance must be done in-house, and now PMUS components are starting to be sent to TUL for overhaul soon.
 
Keep up the lies and misinformation.
 
Why do you lie all the time?