Industrial vs. Craft

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How many members make up the ibt Airline Division?

How many of the ibt Airline Division members are Mechanic and Related employees?

How Officers in the ibt Airline Divison are Mechanics?

Are ibt Airline Division Officers appointed or elected by the membership?

Does ibt operate on a majority rule principle?

How would the Mechanics being a minority in the ibt Airline Division be represented?

What is the ibt Central States Pension Fund?
Is it going broke?

Did the ibt get released from Government Oversight that was due to corruption, in exchange for endorsing and financing Obama's Presidential campaign in 2008?

How many furloughed Mechanics at UAL were promised their jobs and pensions back in exchange for supporting the ibt, and still have neither of those?

Why does Hoffa Jr, want to stop members from electing the General President of the ibt?

Why does ibt have dissident group called Teamsters for a Democratic Union?
 
Lee Seham, Kevin McCormick and AMFA presented one of the most powerful and compelling cases before Presidential Emergency Board #235 in Philadelphia during the month of March 2001.

The Seham/ McCormick presentation before PEB #235 resulted in one of the highest gaining Mechanic and Related labor agreements in the history of the industry.

There is only one Union that would or has ever made the Mechanic and Related Arguement like the one presented before PEB #235, and that Union is AMFA.

The Industrial Union are too busy with campaigns of back stabbing politicians and only interested in saving the jobs of the unskilled on the backs of the Mechanics to ever take the Mechanic and Related issues before a Presidential Emergency Board hearing or even to the public domain period.

The fear and smear attack dogs of the ibt have nothing to show you like the P.E.B. 235 presentation so they instead attack the only men that have ever presented a Mechanic and Related arguement before a Presidential Emergency. Instead that promise you everything, and provide you nothing.

Once you enter into a majority rule organization as a minority work group, you be living the same issues and problems that you are living with the TWU. There is only one Union that once you become a member, your craft and class will be the majority. That Union is AMFA because the AMFA restricts itself Constitutionally from representing anyone other than the Mechanic and Related group.

And in any majority rule organization, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that being the majority is far better than being the minority!
 
Can any of you Industrial Union supporters show a single case of the Industrial Union presenting anything like the presentation below that was made before the Federal Government? Or even to the public for that matter.

The reason nothing like this exist other than AMFA presentations is because the unskilled majority would be politcally offended by these statements.

AMFA does not have to worry about offending the unskilled majority when making Mechanic and Related arguements, because there is no unskilled majority within the Mechanics craft Union called the A.M.F.A.

Below are the words of Lee Seham, that Anamoly is attacking on this forum as a fear and smear campaign to keep you in another Industrial Union, strapped into negotiations with another unskilled majority structure.



PEB #235 Transcript - Post Hearing Summary

March of 2001 - 6 Months prior to the 9/11 Terrorist Attacks

THE DISAPPEARING CRAFT OF AVIATION TECHNICIAN
AND THE SAFETY IMPLICATIONS FOR THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY

The nationwide shortage of aviation technicians is reaching crisis proportions.
This is not just an AMFA position. The shortage is confirmed by the Federal Aviation
Administration, the United States Department of Labor, PAMA, technical schools, and
the leading industry publication Aviation Week & Space Technology, which describes
the shortage as a growing safety concern.

Applications to technical schools have plummeted 50% in nine years. Current
graduation rates are 50 to 75% below the current needs of the aviation industry. The
problem is further exacerbated by the fact that, due to the availability of higher wages in
other industries, 75 to 90% of new technicians leave aviation within five years of
graduation.

Demographics will bring this crisis to a dangerous climax in a few short years.
The Viet Nam War caused a boom in the supply of technicians as these men passed from
the military to private industry. Now they are reaching retirement almost simultaneously.
For example, 15% of United Airlines’ technicians will shortly become eligible for
retirement. Similar percentages apply throughout the industry, including at Northwest.
But there is virtually no one to replace them. No one wants this job anymore. It is too
stressful, it is too physically debilitating, it is too fraught with potential liability, and it is
too unrewarding.

The decreasing safety margin caused by the shortage in aviation technicians is
already visible. Aircraft line checks that used to occur every three days are now stretched
to seven days. Technicians are forced into overtime situations that are so fatiguing that
the FAA is conducting safety investigations. Aircraft are increasingly flying without
operational backup systems, relying with ever greater frequency on “minimum” safety
standards. And that is today. Considering the trends discussed above, tomorrow will be
much, much worse.


ORIGINS OF A FREE MARKET BREAKDOWN


The traditional goal of a labor union is to obtain above market wages by creating,
and withholding, a monopoly of the available labor. Ironically, aviation technicians have
been kept below market wages by their own labor unions. For sixty years, aviation
technicians have been represented by labor unions that are dominated by an unskilled
majority. As a consequence, hourly wage rates for baggage handlers currently top out at
over $19, within a few dollars of the technicians who repair jet engines. The political
power of the unskilled majority demanded an averaging of wages irrespective of the free
market value of the technicians’ skill. And the carriers allowed this to happen.
The eyes of technicians nationwide are on the AMFA/NWA contract because they
know that, if the pay inequities are not fixed here, no other labor union will address the
crisis. These unions are simply unwilling to alienate their respective unskilled majorities.
With or without a strike, aviation technicians will abandon their jobs en masse unless the
past disregard of the free market is remedied. The free market is correcting the belowmarket
wages of aviation technicians by transferring them to non-aviation industries
where they are more highly valued, but that “correction” involves the destruction of a
skilled craft to the enduring detriment of aviation safety
 
Does this look familiar to you AA people. Why would anybody want to switch from the twu to the ibt is beyond me????

The ibt has a group within it trying to make change from within..................................25 years later.......................... well you know how the story goes.


After the amfa debacle at NWA and the hack job they did at UAL why would anyone want to switch to amfa?
amfa at TULE is dead.

The IBT is the ONLY choice for AA MXs.
 
Raptor the more immature you continue to act, the more you claim to be non union and the more threats you make the more support you lose. And I will turn the lights out if Dave doesn't, not you.

Berating people from behind an Alias & a keyboard is what started the immature rounds in the first place & your support is the last thing I want if you haven't figured that out yet then you haven't been listening, once again your agenda isn't mine.
Celebrating the layoff off anyone speaks volumes to your character.

The saying "Honor among thieves" applies here.

Glenn I will never feel bad about a coward who Berates people from behind a keyboard & an Alias being laid off, that is not the type of person I want to work with or have anything to do with, there is no honor among thieves, I say good riddance to him period, I don't like seeing honorable people get laid off who support their families everyday & treat others as they want to be treated.
 
Does this look familiar to you AA people. Why would anybody want to switch from the twu to the ibt is beyond me????

The ibt has a group within it trying to make change from within..................................25 years later.......................... well you know how the story goes.


After the amfa debacle at NWA and the hack job they did at UAL why would anyone want to switch to amfa?
amfa at TULE is dead.

The IBT is the ONLY choice for AA MXs.

I like the concept of AMFA a Union that is mostly about A&P Mechanics but they won't get enough cards their just going to work their asses off & spend their money & be disappointed in about 12 months, it's not a fun process, Kind of feel bad for the decent guys that go through the process but not the A#$%^s that think their somebody from behind an Alias & a keyboard.
 
Raptor twit, you're not the BB police. People will call BS on your posts, just like I have. You have an ulterior motive, despite your claims of neutrality. We have seen that tactic before on this BB. Now, your new tactic is, asking for peoples names. It never works. You try ratting out posters to the moderator - whats next? You seem to crave credibility - not gonna happen. I smell desperation - as evidenced by well over 600 posts in about 1 months time. BTW, the few guys I have spoken to that know you...well - nut case with a Napoleon complex was how one guy put it. So, come on down from your high horse.

This coming from a coward who hides behind an Alias & a keyboard .... you think their is any credibility in that ?? You could be anybody, yeah people on here know me but nobody knows you because you are nobody.
If I cared what people thought about me then I would join the bandwagon & start chanting the crap some of you are chanting, I'm the same person in person as I am online so I don't have to hide behind an Alias & a keyboard, I am who I want to be & have no interest chanting the chant so I can be popular.
With the crap you say you have a good reason for hiding behind an Alias like a dishonorable @$$
 
Glenn I will never feel bad about a coward who Berates people from behind a keyboard & an Alias being laid off, that is not the type of person I want to work with or have anything to do with, there is no honor among thieves, I say good riddance to him period, I don't like seeing honorable people get laid off who support their families everyday & treat others as they want to be treated.
Have you looked in the mirror? You are here berating people who disagree with you from behind a computer keyboard.

Just a guess, but I am betting that raptorman is an alias.

You have zero credibility.
 
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Good Teamsters for AA video for anyone interested in the Teamsters. http://viewidc.com/fme734jc
doesn't matter to me what Union the Majority pick because i'm out of here after this contract, AA is going to continue to be more A&P unfriendly in the years to come with more OSM usage & lower pay & benefits, do yourself a favor & start making plans that will allow you to leave, 5 years from now things will be very different & you won't like the change.
 
Shouldn't we all expect that even the simple minded amongst us can grasp what majority rule means?
And that Unions are mostly setup as "majority rule" structures?
Then why are divided when the only choice before us is the TWU, IBT, and AMFA and only ONE of those choices allows for the Aicraft Mechanic to be the MAJORITY in the structure.
Do we really have to bring the debate down to a third grade level for professional AMT's to grasp the concept?

The simpletons would rather piss and moan over personal issues, attack each other, or just just plain bury their heads in the sand about how unions work or our case don't work for us.

If anyone knows how to get through to the brain dead mechanics of this industry to tell them that the dues collectors are telling them lies, and offering false hope that does not exist being a minority in a majority rule structure I would like to hear those ideas.


READ THIS REAL SLOW AND THINK ABOUT IT FOR SHORT TIME INSTEAD OF FOCUSING ON PERSONAL BATTLES THAT WILL GET US NOWHERE !! Just a short amount of time is all I ask.


ORIGINS OF A FREE MARKET BREAKDOWN

The traditional goal of a labor union is to obtain above market wages by creating,
and withholding, a monopoly of the available labor. Ironically, aviation technicians have
been kept below market wages by their own labor unions. For sixty years, aviation
technicians have been represented by labor unions that are dominated by an unskilled
majority. As a consequence, hourly wage rates for baggage handlers currently top out at
over $19, within a few dollars of the technicians who repair jet engines. The political
power of the unskilled majority demanded an averaging of wages irrespective of the free
market value of the technicians’ skill. And the carriers allowed this to happen.
The eyes of technicians nationwide are on the AMFA/NWA contract because they
know that, if the pay inequities are not fixed here, no other labor union will address the
crisis. These unions are simply unwilling to alienate their respective unskilled majorities.
With or without a strike, aviation technicians will abandon their jobs en masse unless the
past disregard of the free market is remedied. The free market is correcting the belowmarket
wages of aviation technicians by transferring them to non-aviation industries
where they are more highly valued, but that “correction” involves the destruction of a
skilled craft to the enduring detriment of aviation safety


Lee Seham 2001 NWA/AMFA Presidential Emergency Board Hearing
 
Have you looked in the mirror? You are here berating people who disagree with you from behind a computer keyboard.

Just a guess, but I am betting that raptorman is an alias.

You have zero credibility.

I only Berate others who do it first not people who disagree with me & it's no secret who I am & you know it.
I'm not looking for credibility nor do I have a cause like AMFA, Teamsters, TWU or the contract, I'm here for Entertainment & to maybe pick up some information between all the BS that gets posted so don't get worked up over my opinions it's not worth it.
 
Good Teamsters for AA video for anyone interested in the Teamsters. http://viewidc.com/fme734jc
doesn't matter to me what Union the Majority pick because i'm out of here after this contract, AA is going to continue to be more A&P unfriendly in the years to come with more OSM usage & lower pay & benefits, do yourself a favor & start making plans that will allow you to leave, 5 years from now things will be very different & you won't like the change.

Exactly what makes this a "good teamsters" video?
Let's take this discussion to the specifics of our problems, and get out of the childish playground and fear mongering all negative life of fortune telling that the whole world sucks today and in the future.

Can we?
 
Does this look familiar to you AA people. Why would anybody want to switch from the twu to the ibt is beyond me????

The ibt has a group within it trying to make change from within..................................25 years later.......................... well you know how the story goes.


After the amfa debacle at NWA and the hack job they did at UAL why would anyone want to switch to amfa?
amfa at TULE is dead.

The IBT is the ONLY choice for AA MXs.

In true industrial union fasion, only half of the post is copied. Why would you expect anything more from SCAB industrial unions!!!!
 
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