Is there a new stimulus on the way

Discussion in 'The Water Cooler' started by V.O. Reason, Dec 3, 2020.

  1. Slamdunk

    Slamdunk Member

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    A well wriiten response. Thanks.

    Social security IS a safety net for people injured, widowed and who lived paycheck to paycheck during their working years. It is barely enough to get by on unless you can supplement with savings.

    Businesses bailed on us for profits, not competition.

    I agree Trump tried to mitigate with tarriffs. Too little too late; And very clumsily. Forcing a bailout for part of his base- farmers.

    The fact that very few employers pay minimum wage means the federal minimum wage can be raised. You're lacking accounting rules in your Walmart example that would make it work. Maybe you should see how Henry Ford doubled his employees wages. Mcdonalds Burger flippers in Brussels make 20/hrUSD. Big Mac is only 10 cents more.

    A growing trend in businesses is to not to pay anyone less than $68k.
    My employer of 5000 is one of them. I hope yours is too. It can work.

    You shouldn'd skip class. Go back to school.
     
  2. La Li Lu Le Lo

    La Li Lu Le Lo Veteran

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    $7.25 an hour.

    However, as I previously stated, very few employers actually pay that. From my experience your average run of the mill starting wage here for unskilled blue collar work is about $10.00 to $12.00 an hour.

    If you want to get a picture to compare to where you live here are some numbers. Oklahoma is in RED and New Hampshire is in BLUE.

    https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/OK,NH/PST045219

    Population estimates, July 1, 2019, (V2019) 3,956,971
    Population estimates, July 1, 2019, (V2019) 1,359,711

    High school graduate or higher, percent of persons age 25 years+, 2015-2019 88.0%
    High school graduate or higher, percent of persons age 25 years+, 2015-2019 93.1%

    Bachelor's degree or higher, percent of persons age 25 years+, 2015-2019 25.5%
    Bachelor's degree or higher, percent of persons age 25 years+, 2015-2019 37.0%

    Median household income (in 2019 dollars), 2015-2019 $52,919
    Median household income (in 2019 dollars), 2015-2019 $76,768

    Per capita income in past 12 months (in 2019 dollars), 2015-2019 $28,422
    Per capita income in past 12 months (in 2019 dollars), 2015-2019 $40,003

    Persons in poverty, percent 15.2%
    Persons in poverty, percent 7.3%
     
  3. La Li Lu Le Lo

    La Li Lu Le Lo Veteran

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    Again, I fundamentally disagree. Social Security is a forced investment and I expect a return on my investment.

    No. Americans bailed on American business for cheap goods made in third world countries. American companies adapted because they were getting squeezed out of markets.

    They need food a hell of a lot more than we need anything they have to offer. China has burned through their natural resources. They now have to buy raw materials from other countries. Many of those countries have growing concerns about China burning through their resources. Sooner or later those countries will cut China off...... then watch out. China is dying but nobody wants to admit it.

    Nobody ever disputed that they COULD raise minimum wage. I only said your idea of raising it to $20 an hour is stupid. As far as your Walmart accounting rules statement...... you are showing your ignorance. I showed you that paying $20 an hour would bankrupt Walmart. There is no accounting rule in the world that is going to fix more money going out than coming in. I understand Walmart is a huge company but they also have huge costs.

    I would also ask you to validate your Brussels claim. First off you need to understand McDonald's is not a fast food company, it is a real estate and distribution company. McDonald's, at least in the United States, does not pay employees who work in the restaurants. The franchisee's pay those employees. IF those employees make that wage that is because it is appropriate for their geo location. That does not mean it is appropriate for the United States. I also seriously doubt your claim that the Big Mac is only 10 cents higher. That is a pretty grand claim to make with no validation and you have already have a history of propagating false information.

    That is probably the most absurd statement I have ever seen on this forum...... but OK.

    At any rate if the trend in business is to not pay anyone less that $68K then why do you have such a hard on to raise minimum wage. If your statement is true it seems the problem is solving itself.

    I am not the one spreading a bunch of false information. I give links to validate my claims. You just dump a bunch of BS and expect people to just accept it as truth. Frankly at this point I see you as nothing more than a clown with a bull horn. I wait in anticipation to see what foolishness you are going to inflict on the forum next.
     
  4. La Li Lu Le Lo

    La Li Lu Le Lo Veteran

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    I thought you worked for American Airlines.

    Without naming your employer what exactly do you do?
     
  5. Slamdunk

    Slamdunk Member

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    boy. you have anger issues. i actually consider you accurate on some points but the name calling is imature.
     
  6. Slamdunk

    Slamdunk Member

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    i really cant name my employer because of social media rules i must abide by. i work as a mechanic for a bio tech company. I left aviation after 9-11.
     
  7. La Li Lu Le Lo

    La Li Lu Le Lo Veteran

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    Anger?

    Yes maybe.

    I have a low tolerance for stupidity and you are dropping bucket loads on this forum.

    It is very obvious you have no clue how money actually works. You think you can raise people's standard of living by just throwing money at it but it does not work that way. The more money you have in the economy the less it is worth. That is just a fact of life because money has to be backed by something to give it worth. To give you an example you can cut a piece of cake into 10 pieces and give 10 people a piece. They complain they want more so next time you take a cake of similar size and divide it into 20 pieces and give everyone 2 pieces. The fact is they are still only getting the same "worth" of cake because the original cake is only so big. You can divide our cake (economy) up into many pieces but at the end of the day our economy only represents so much worth and giving more slices (2 pieces) does not equal more buying power. It only means they have more pieces of lesser value. Do you get it now?

    You stated $20/hr was a solution. I have shown you that 20 exceeds the late 60's standard you defined when adjusted for inflation. I also showed you that $20 an hour would bankrupt Walmart without them raising their prices. I asked you what good it did to raise pay when prices for everything else will raise to. You never answered me. I tried to explain to you that the world trades in USD and that raising minimum wage would trigger a market correction that would hurt us in the short turn. I also stated to you that since prices will go up people making the new minimum wage are not gaining buying power as the increased prices will nullify their raise. You seem to ignore things that don't fit your narrative.

    I know you don't like poverty. I don't like it either but the fact is we live in a world of finite resources. You are always going to have someone at the bottom. The great thing about this country is your future is not written. This country provides many opportunities to raise the standard of living if you are motivated to find them. Many in this country start off poor and uneducated and through pure ambition wind up multimillionaires. Others start off in well to do homes and through sheer stupidity or laziness end up in poverty.

    I understand your reluctance to name your employer. That is why I very specifically stated "without naming your employer". I did suspect you no longer worked for an airline after you made the statement your employer had 5000 employees. That is why I asked.

    Do you find being a mechanic at a biotech company as lucrative as an airline mechanic?
     
  8. Dog Wonder

    Dog Wonder Veteran

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  9. Slamdunk

    Slamdunk Member

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    Bucket loads of stupidity? I try to keep it under a hundred words.

    I thought it was crazy to essentially double the wages of 40% of my coworkers but that extra income made a huge positive difference in their lives. it was impressive to witness. The relief they felt and investments they made. going to college online. Not working second jobs. And it hasnt hurt the companies bottom line one bit.

    Henry Ford wanted his employees to be able to afford the vehicles they made. so he paid them more. That was the right attitude. Walmart shorts peoples hours to keep them part time and kills commerce in the communities they enter by selling cheap stuff from thirdworld countries for way more than they paid. You can buy a leather Harley Davidson jacket for thirty bucks in Mexico. That same jacket would go for 3-400 at an HD dealership. Make that jacket in the US at 20/hr and a profit will still be made.

    Businesses moved mfg offshore for profits. And manufacturers in third world countries learned how to copy our designs to sell them even cheaper. Airlines do the same thing with heavy checks. Profits. Not competition.

    Is my job more lucrative? I pay my bills, save some money, have a wife, daughter on her own, cat, house, three cars and zero debt. I will be able to retire, God willing.

    I doubt I make what a line mech with 33 years would make hourly. But I live where I want to live. weekends and holidays off. No bidding for anything. No worries in a pandemic or an oil crises.
    And if my company fails or I fail my company, I know Ill find a job in weeks if not days. That is worth something.
     
  10. La Li Lu Le Lo

    La Li Lu Le Lo Veteran

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    #130 La Li Lu Le Lo, Jan 5, 2021
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2021
    Sure it has. I am not saying they are not profitable but to say it did not affect the bottom line, that is a falsehood.

    Henry Ford did not have to deal with large scale globalization.

    They charge what the market will bear. If people stop buying HD jackets the price goes down until they do buy them. Ultimately it is the consumer that sets pricing.

    Being a former airline employee myself that moved on to another career I have to agree with you, it is worth something.
     
  11. Slamdunk

    Slamdunk Member

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    LaLi, you are quite the literalist.

    it really didnt have a negative impact at all. Sure, you might see it on a financial statement- but wall street didn’t blink. You know Wall street would punish a company for lesser reasons. they didnt punish this one. the expense was done swiftly. the jump would have been obvious. I guess it depends on how well you present it to investors.

    I may be wrong but I cant imagine many HD jackets selling. they are pretty gaudy. they are not worth 30 to me. i didnt buy it when I saw it in Mx. And I had a Harley at the time.
     
  12. swamt

    swamt Veteran

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