MRO Outsourced Maintenance

[telebender1956]

My link

 

[aapitbull]

This will continue until someone has a crash and it comes out what is really going on, like the article says the new members of congress will kill the movement to level the playing field. I only hope it hits close to home for some of the folks who keep pushing this unsafe work over seas.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Using the Quantas A380 incident is a little disingenuous of the author - the airplane was new enough that I'd be surprised that the engine had been overhauled by a MRO (though that engine's development/construction was outsourced by Airbus, just like the engines on Boeings). But to the larger question of outsourced maintenance it's obvious that some airline execs think it is the answer and others think the opposite. Some companies have been outsourcing at least heavy maintenance for a long time and their airplanes haven't been falling out of the sky while others do very limited outsourcing (line maintenance at smaller stations, for example) and their planes haven't been falling out of the sky either. So I'm not sure there is one correct answer.

Jim

 

[Hopeful]

Using the Quantas A380 incident is a little disingenuous of the author - the airplane was new enough that I'd be surprised that the engine had been overhauled by a MRO (though that engine's development/construction was outsourced by Airbus, just like the engines on Boeings). But to the larger question of outsourced maintenance it's obvious that some airline execs think it is the answer and others think the opposite. Some companies have been outsourcing at least heavy maintenance for a long time and their airplanes haven't been falling out of the sky while others do very limited outsourcing (line maintenance at smaller stations, for example) and their planes haven't been falling out of the sky either. So I'm not sure there is one correct answer.

Jim

I would be even more surprised to hear that the Quantas A380 engine was overhauled at all. Given the age of the A380 in general, it would be too soon to overhaul unless it was changed prematurely.
As for the whole outsourcing issue in general. Planes do not have to fall out of the sky to excuse them of shoddy maintenance. many an off shore MRO employs peoplle who do not read, write or speak English while all the maintenance manuals are in English.
What about security at these facilites? Current FAA inspectors whom I've known for years have some great concerns about the safety and experience factor. They usually get silenced because the FAA does not want to "hurt" the airlines' financial situation too much.

 

[WorldTraveler]

With all due respect, the article contains a number of claims from labor-related groups in Australia which want to try to demonstrate that QF's problems are related to outsourcing.

While it is very easy to point the finger at others, it is very important to make sure we have cleaned our own house first.

No one, the Republicans in Congress included, are interested in compromising aviation safety for the sake of reduced US jobs... but allegations that outsourced maintenance is the cause of the problems while failing to acknowledge that there are serious problems happening on US soil with US workers, US mgmt, and US regulators does nothing to ensure that aviation safety is as safe as it should be for every carrier, regardless of the source of the work.

Given that Airbus, RR, and Qantas are all saying that investigations are still going on as to the cause of that engine failure, it is premature to speculate whether contract labor has any role in the process... and attempting to piggyback on an unfortunate incident without knowing that there is a real connection can very much backfire.

 

[Hopeful]

No one, the Republicans in Congress included, are interested in compromising aviation safety for the sake of reduced US jobs... but allegations that outsourced maintenance is the cause of the problems while failing to acknowledge that there are serious problems happening on US soil with US workers, US mgmt, and US regulators does nothing to ensure that aviation safety is as safe as it should be for every carrier, regardless of the source of the work.

.

I agree here! There are 3p MROs on pour own soil who produce shoddy work.
And as for the Republicans, until one of their own or their loved ones die as a result of outsourced shoddy maintenance, then and only then will they sing a different tune.

 

[texasreb]

Let's see. We have had a democrat congress for six years and a democrat president for two years now. They have done nothing for labor in that time.

 

[Hopeful]

Let's see. We have had a democrat congress for six years and a democrat president for two years now. They have done nothing for labor in that time.

True. But one thing in the works was regarding the outsourcing of maintenance. Unfortunately the Republicans will nix any kind of legislation to stop it or limit it. They encourage outsourcing as a means of deflating wages here.
Both sides like to speak out of both sides of their mouths about creating jobs here. It did not matter which president sat in the White House or who controlled Congress..Outsourcing in many a manufacturing sector has been increasing year after year regardless of who was running the country.
Outsourcing will one day make the headlines when a crash of disastrous proportions occurs. Then the investigations will begin, airline CEO's will swear before Senators and Congressmen and Congresswoman how it was a fluke and the maintenance abroad is just as good as if their own airlines did it in house.
They would testify that the only difference is that the greedy US union mechanics make 15x the salary of the mechanics in Central America and Asia.

The irony of it all is that if outsourcing is so normal and beneficial to the company's bottom line, why haven't they outsourced pilots, flight attendants and most importantly Management? Just think of the cost saving not having to pay executives their handsome compensation packages. Just pay someone abroad a fraction of what they make.

 

[Veritas]

Let's see. We have had a democrat congress for six years...

Have six years passed since 2006?

 

[FWAAA]

The irony of it all is that if outsourcing is so normal and beneficial to the company's bottom line, why haven't they outsourced pilots, flight attendants and most importantly Management? Just think of the cost saving not having to pay executives their handsome compensation packages. Just pay someone abroad a fraction of what they make.

Outsourced FAs? Sounds like a winner. Hire 10,000 SQ Girls and Boys and AA would become THE domestic airline to fly. Problem is the FA contract and US immigration law. Some of those FAs would have to move here and flight attendant isn't one of those occupations where AA could show there are no qualified US citizens to fill the job.

Outsourced pilots? Same problem as the FAs. Their contract and immigration law.

Outsourced management? Same answer as the last time you posted this question. Federal law requires that US-based airlines be managed primarily by US citizens to avoid finding of foreign control. Foreigners aren't allowed to control US-based airlines. Foreigners can't serve as executives.

Outsourced maintenance? No federal laws standing in the way. Fly the planes somewhere else and foreigners can work on them.

 

[Hopeful]

Outsourced FAs? Sounds like a winner. Hire 10,000 SQ Girls and Boys and AA would become THE domestic airline to fly. Problem is the FA contract and US immigration law. Some of those FAs would have to move here and flight attendant isn't one of those occupations where AA could show there are no qualified US citizens to fill the job.

Outsourced pilots? Same problem as the FAs. Their contract and immigration law.

Outsourced management? Same answer as the last time you posted this question. Federal law requires that US-based airlines be managed primarily by US citizens to avoid finding of foreign control. Foreigners aren't allowed to control US-based airlines. Foreigners can't serve as executives.

Outsourced maintenance? No federal laws standing in the way. Fly the planes somewhere else and foreigners can work on them.

It's called sarcasm!
Nevertheless, the day will come when the government will have to address this issue NOT because of the lost of jobs, but because of poor maintenance and security at those facilities.
Do you think all those workers go through background checks like we do here?
Do you think they have to get their Port Authority and customes ID renewed every year after annual background checks?
Do you think their are plenty of pictures and pretty diagrams in the maintenance manuals because many of them do not speak English?
It may sound like one of those "great" airline decisions to outsource jobs overseas, but the day will come where it will have to addressed albeit for some disastrous reason.
.

 

[eolesen]

I understand all the concern over outsourced maintenance, but of the four accidents with US based carriers that I can think of where maintenance or structural failure were a direct cause, three of them were from airlines who in-sourced at the time (AA, UA, AS).

With Oberstar having been defeated (by a former NWA pilot no less), you guys lost any chance you had of an outsourcing provision making its way into the law books anytime soon.

 

[FWAAA]

Trent 900s on affected QF A380 have been maintained by Rolls Royce since installation:

"We believe this is probably most likely a material failure or some type of design issue," Joyce told a news conference in Sydney. "We don't believe this is related to maintenance in any way." He said the engines had been maintained by Rolls-Royce since they were installed.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101105/ap_on_bi_ge/as_qantas_emergency_14

Outsourced maintenance can be a problem, but this incident has nothing to do with third world MROs.

Wonder if TAESEL has touched this engine?

 

[telebender1956]

I understand all the concern over outsourced maintenance, but of the four accidents with US based carriers that I can think of where maintenance or structural failure were a direct cause, three of them were from airlines who in-sourced at the time (AA, UA, AS).

With Oberstar having been defeated (by a former NWA pilot no less), you guys lost any chance you had of an outsourcing provision making its way into the law books anytime soon.

Maintenance was NOT EVER CITED as a cause of the AA A300 that crashed in N.Y. in 2001. The other AA crashes of recent times [MD80 in Little Rock and B737 in Jamaca] were a result of pilot error/bad weather.The last FATAL AA crash that involved maintenance procedures was the DC10 1979 at ORD. AA flew from 1979 to 1995 without a FATAL CRASH until the Flight crew flew a B757 into the side of a mountain in South America.
To include AA in your premise is a direct misrepresentation of the facts.
AA operated the largest fleet of MD80's in the world and NEVER had horizontal stabilizer failure in flight which resulted in a fatal crash. To name AA with AS is once again not an accurate representation of the facts.

 

[chris perry]

Maintenance was NOT EVER CITED as a cause of the AA A300 that crashed in N.Y. in 2001. The other AA crashes of recent times [MD80 in Little Rock and B737 in Jamaca] were a result of pilot error/bad weather.The last FATAL AA crash that involved maintenance procedures was the DC10 1979 at ORD. AA flew from 1979 to 1995 without a FATAL CRASH until the Flight crew flew a B757 into the side of a mountain in South America.
To include AA in your premise is a direct misrepresentation of the facts.
AA operated the largest fleet of MD80's in the world and NEVER had horizontal stabilizer failure in flight which resulted in a fatal crash. To name AA with AS is once again not an accurate representation of the facts.

Its a ticking time bomb,its just a matter of time.SAD BUT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!