Obamacare Update!

[Ms Tree]

 

Problem with that is most countries that have single payer also have payroll tax of well over 50% to pay for it!!!

Actually most of them do not and those that do have higher taxes than the US have better retirement, schools, transportation and and litany of other benefits. You can either pay a little now or a lot later. Choice seems pretty easy to me.

 

[Ms Tree]

 

Actually most of them do not and those that do have higher taxes than the US have better retirement, schools, transportation and and litany of other benefits. You can either pay a little now or a lot later. Choice seems pretty easy to me.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/10/focus-4

 

[SparrowHawk]

 
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/10/focus-4
 
Tree is right. The ONLY nation I'm aware of that has a national average marginal tax rate above 50% is Sweden and it cruises in at 52%. Now I'm told Norway and the other Nordic countries have a very high rate as well. I've also read where this is a cultural thing more then an economic model.
 
What you don't have in my observation is the variation of taxes. Here we have Fed, State & local taxes and they are all over the lot. Very very expensive real estate tax in NJ versus almost no real estate taxes elsewhere as a quick example.

 

[PHXConx]

  Not the last time I checked. When I lost my job 6 years ago I bought health insurance for the Mrs and my self. The rates were crazy high and the coverage sucked.

As I have stated on here several times I am not a big fan of ACA. I think it is better than what we had which was nothing, but it has a long way to go. Part of me hopes it fails but only if that will lead to a single payer form of health coverage. Every other western country has universal health care. Why this country is so against it is just crazy.

I dont see why the same concept cannot be applied to all forms of insurance. Insurance is a scam. They charge outrageously high premiums and make obscenely high profits of off people misery and suffering. They deny health care on a daily basis even though doctors deem it necessary, they dictate how long a patient can stay in a bed and who lives and who dies. So long as there is profit in peoples suffering there is a conflict of interest. I would love to see the day when insurance companies vanish.

i dont know the last time you checked was..
 
you keep saying what we had before was nothing thats not true that was government mandated hmo system thank you teddy kennedy in 1973..  
 
 
once upon a time you could buy your care with a chicken or whatever you had to barter, thank you government intrusion into they process and we get what we got... 
 
only complete idiots would think the best way to fix what government intrusion caused is more government intrusion... 
 
thats not just democrats consider romney care... 

 

[PHXConx]

 
http://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2012/10/focus-4

that link still only covers federal income and social security taxes and does not like the op said include state and local taxes...
 
unless you posted that to prove him right

 

[PHXConx]

 
Actually most of them do not and those that do have higher taxes than the US have better retirement, schools, transportation and and litany of other benefits. You can either pay a little now or a lot later. Choice seems pretty easy to me.

well you can always move there whats stopping you?  thats your choice... not forcing others to comply

 

[Ms Tree]

i dont know the last time you checked was..
 
you keep saying what we had before was nothing thats not true that was government mandated hmo system thank you teddy kennedy in 1973..  
 
 
once upon a time you could buy your care with a chicken or whatever you had to barter, thank you government intrusion into they process and we get what we got... 
 
only complete idiots would think the best way to fix what government intrusion caused is more government intrusion... 
 
thats not just democrats consider romney care...

 
Capitalism does not work for health care.  So long as there is profit in your poor health then you are going to get scfrewed.  There is no way around it.  Health care is not like car or house repairs.  You can shop around.  If you have a critical illness and need imediate care you go to the nearest hospital and hope they can save your ass.  If they make more money by running more tests and pushing more drugs then they will do so. 
 
Nearly every other advanced country has a single payer universal health care system.  I do not understand why everyone thinks were are incapable of either doing the same or devising a better system than the rest of the world.  Our system is a failure.  People are dying and suffering because of lack of preventative health care.  Pharmaceutical corporations are getting rich off of our suffering.  Hospital corporations are getting rich off of our suffering.    It's insane. 
 
I think single payer is the way to go.  DO you have a better solution?

 

[Ms Tree]

 

Problem with that is most countries that have single payer also have payroll tax of well over 50% to pay for it!!!

 
 

that link still only covers federal income and social security taxes and does not like the op said include state and local taxes...
 
unless you posted that to prove him right

 
 
No it does not and those taxes would still not equal the the 'most countries over 50%' that you implied.  If you have a source to back it up by all means please post it.

well you can always move there whats stopping you?  thats your choice... not forcing others to comply

If I could afford it and I did not have family here I would gladly move there.  Why is it that people always say if you don't like it move?  I don't like it and I'm trying to change it and make it better.  I'm probably going to end up staying in the US so I'm going to try and make it better instead of bailing out on a system that is a failure.  Moving would be the easy way out but as I said, I don't have the money to do so. 

 

[MCI transplant]

 
Government has the right to do what ever the people say it can do. If a majority of us want single payer then you will have to deal with it.

I love the idea of single payer and I'm all for it. Confiscation and all.

Don't through a tantrum Tree!----- What you don't understand is just because you feel there should be a single payer system, just won't get it!---- I hate to break the news to you, but you see, the majority of us may not want it!

 

[Ms Tree]

Don't through a tantrum Tree!----- What you don't understand is just because you feel there should be a single payer system, just won't get it!---- I hate to break the news to you, but you see, the majority of us may not want it!

I think a majority do, they just have no clue what it is.  the right scream socialism to shut the debate down.  Thing is when people hear about the care in countries that have single payer they like the idea.  People have been brainwashed in this country.  Yell socialism and poof ... its bad.  Facts be damned.
 
For got the links
 
http://www.medicareforall.org/pages/Chart_of_Americans_Support
 
MA 2010 election results on ballot initiative.  63% in favor.
http://www.medicareforall.org/pages/Chart_of_Americans_Support
 
VT DIgger poll.  the article indicated that people may be confused or biased against the term 'single payer' because when asked about universal health care they were in favor if it.  Go figure.
http://vtdigger.org/2014/04/23/vtdiggercastleton-poll-21-percent-seem-confused-term-single-payer/
 
I do not have a great deal of faith in these polls (I think the numbers are higher for those in favor) because I do not think many people understand what universal/single payer actually means.  If they listen to the news they are clueless and not many people actually look anything up. 

 

[MCI transplant]

I think a majority do, they just have no clue what it is.  the right scream socialism to shut the debate down.  Thing is when people hear about the care in countries that have single payer they like the idea.  People have been brainwashed in this country.  Yell socialism and poof ... its bad.  Facts be damned.
 
For got the links
 
http://www.medicareforall.org/pages/Chart_of_Americans_Support
 
MA 2010 election results on ballot initiative.  63% in favor.
http://www.medicareforall.org/pages/Chart_of_Americans_Support
 
VT DIgger poll.  the article indicated that people may be confused or biased against the term 'single payer' because when asked about universal health care they were in favor if it.  Go figure.
http://vtdigger.org/2014/04/23/vtdiggercastleton-poll-21-percent-seem-confused-term-single-payer/
 
I do not have a great deal of faith in these polls (I think the numbers are higher for those in favor) because I do not think many people understand what universal/single payer actually means.  If they listen to the news they are clueless and not many people actually look anything up.

You believe they do? ----- Oh! I don't believe we've had a vote on that particular issue now we? --- And polls? You don't believe they "have a clue"? Ever think that maybe, just maybe,they do? And you, yes you, may not "have a clue"?

 

[Ms Tree]

The polls linked indicate there is a majority support.  I believe there would be a greater number who support if they knew what single payer/universal care was.  Several polls indicate that many people do not know the difference,  I know what they are.  We may have differing opinions on the benefits but I know what they are.

 

[SparrowHawk]

The polls linked indicate there is a majority support.  I believe there would be a greater number who support if they knew what single payer/universal care was.  Several polls indicate that many people do not know the difference,  I know what they are.  We may have differing opinions on the benefits but I know what they are.

The German public supported Adof Hitler as well. Does that make his actions moral or ethical?

 

[Ms Tree]

What does that have to with anything. We have elections every few years. Are those majorities wrong?

Geez louise.

 

[PHXConx]

 
 
 
 
 
No it does not and those taxes would still not equal the the 'most countries over 50%' that you implied.  If you have a source to back it up by all means please post it.
 
i didnt imply anything the op did, im just pointing out your link doesnt disprove his claim
 
 
 
If I could afford it and I did not have family here I would gladly move there.  Why is it that people always say if you don't like it move?  I don't like it and I'm trying to change it and make it better.  I'm probably going to end up staying in the US so I'm going to try and make it better instead of bailing out on a system that is a failure.  Moving would be the easy way out but as I said, I don't have the money to do so. 

 you are talking about how great another country is, your choice is if you dont like it here is to move... not force us to be like the place you want to be...  
 
its not our dream to live under that system... 
 
i dont understand why people get insulted when they sit there say how great another country is and those not in that country say well move... if i live someplace i cant stand i move, i dont force my neighbors to my whims... that takes some serious audacity.