Obamacare Update!

[SparrowHawk]

Fed funding is not the only requirement for single payer. There are other facets. Capitalism and health care do not mix. Never have never will.

Funny they mixed just fine from 1791 until 1964. We also had a much larger portion of our system run by religious institutions which provided reduced cost or charity care. You can look at performance metrics like infant mortality as an example that proves the point. See how well the IHS does on that stat?

 

[Ms Tree]

There are quite a few contributing factors to the infant mortality rate in the US.  Pre-term births, lack of pre-natal care, congenital defects, environmental issues ... etc.  If you look at the general mortality rate in the US it has gone down pretty consitently since 1900.
 
There is profit in your poor health. 

 

[SparrowHawk]

Hell of a lot MORE profit in healthy people. Healthy people do things like have sex and create additional revenue opportunities like OB-GYN care and an additional customer or two. Government run health care sees a birth as a cost drain on the system, not as a human being or even a potential source of revenue.
 
When you factor in the demographics of Western Europe and their birth rate you are likely going to see the public health system decline or collapse over time due to not enough young people paying in and an overwhelming influx of immigrant illegal and otherwise further taxing the system.
 
Ask yourself why Countries like Ecuador which has very very low cost healthcare and modern facilities and US educated Doctors to create a Medical Tourist Visa? If everything is so great, grand and wonderful in Western Europe why go to the US or Latin America to get better health care at a lower price? Why is that? 
 
Simple! Because Obama Care is an abortion yet to be fully sucked into a sink and disposed of.

 

[PHXConx]

  Same answer as before. I want to make our system better and I cannot afford to move out so Im staying. You are trying to force me to keep a broken system here in the US. Whats the difference? People probably said the same thing about civil rights and womens rights.
 
yea they were called republicans
 
The US is about change and we are going to change it.
 
we? we who? the majority of people didnt want obama care, dont want it now, and continue to not want it polls have continued to prove this. over and over...  
 
The existing health care system is broken and defective. It will change. Its just a matter of time. Similar to equal rights. The laws are changing. Those of us who supported the changes were told to leave as well if we did not like it. We chose to stay and fight. It will change. If you do not like it, you can move.
 
I might move, its amazing you changed the system 40 years ago, to what it became and now you are b*itching about those results if it was so bad and so unreasonable you would think twice about completely revamping it once again... but you dont...
 
if you totally screw up the USA and turn it into this socialist bastion of state run everything then i will move... if you win the civil war it will create.  

By the way it is, other countries not another country. There are many countries which have a superior health care system to our own.

ill tell you what i would rather be taxed money to let those of you not happy with the system here in the states to move to the country of your choice... i would even be ok to pay for you your family and pets room and board in the country you decide to live for a period of 2 years.  then you can have your happy utopia and leave ours the hell alone..  
 
i bet we could get that to pass..  
 
if they ever did would you take the offer to move?

 

[PHXConx]

Fed funding is not the only requirement for single payer. There are other facets.
 
for example?
 
 
Capitalism and health care do not mix. Never have never will.

if it wasnt for capitalism health care would still be in the dark ages

 

[Ms Tree]

Hell of a lot MORE profit in healthy people. Healthy people do things like have sex and create additional revenue opportunities like OB-GYN care and an additional customer or two. Government run health care sees a birth as a cost drain on the system, not as a human being or even a potential source of revenue.
 
When you factor in the demographics of Western Europe and their birth rate you are likely going to see the public health system decline or collapse over time due to not enough young people paying in and an overwhelming influx of immigrant illegal and otherwise further taxing the system.
 
Ask yourself why Countries like Ecuador which has very very low cost healthcare and modern facilities and US educated Doctors to create a Medical Tourist Visa? If everything is so great, grand and wonderful in Western Europe why go to the US or Latin America to get better health care at a lower price? Why is that? 
 
Simple! Because Obama Care is an abortion yet to be fully sucked into a sink and disposed of.

More profit in healthy people?  How many healthy people drop $1 million for two heart valves and a gall blader removal?  Healthy people do not go to hospitals or doctors.  Preventatve care is always chaeper than emergency care.  That is the entire idea behind universal health care.
 
Conjecture that may or may not be true.  No way to predict the future. 
 
Ecuadore, SE Asia, India have built up a system based on medical vacation.  PLaces like Europe have asystem designed for their populace.  Two different business plans.  The locals in SE Asia, India and such cannot afford the health care in their own countries from what I have read.  Also, look who is going to these medical vacation spots?  Not the Europeans.  Mainly funded by US citizens who cannot afford the US health care.
 
These places have existed long before ACA came on the scene.  I have been reading and hearing about medical tourism for 15-20 years already.  As I have said, I'm not a huge fan of ACA.  It was a bad compromise.  I wish Obama had stuck by his guns and ramed a single payer through Congress when he had both the chambers.  Too many members of COngress were chicken chits and would not back it.  I'm pretty sure it will happen eventually.  The existing system cannot survive. 

 

[Ms Tree]

ill tell you what i would rather be taxed money to let those of you not happy with the system here in the states to move to the country of your choice... i would even be ok to pay for you your family and pets room and board in the country you decide to live for a period of 2 years.  then you can have your happy utopia and leave ours the hell alone..  
 
i bet we could get that to pass..  
 
if they ever did would you take the offer to move?
 
 

If you are trying to imply that what are now current day republicans were the ones who were advocating civil rights and sufferage, republican does not mean what you think it does.  The ideaologies changed drastically in the 50's/60's.
 
Depends on what polls you look at and how they are worded.  Many/most do want universal care.
 
Business influences changed the system back in the 60/70's.  Misguided then as it is now.  Why would I think twice about revamping a broken FUBAR health care system?  Call it what ever name you want.  I'm tired of getting bent over by insurance companies who's goal is to take my money and trying not to pay out on a claim.
 
I'm not going any where.  I'm staying here and trying to change the system.  America is not a love it or leave it place.  Women did not like it and they changed it.  Blacks did not like it and they fought like hell to change it.  That is the way the system works.  I am going to try and change it.
 
If the offer to pay for me to move were fair I would definitely consider it.  Been to several places in Europe that are high on my list of places I would love to live.

 

[Ms Tree]

if it wasnt for capitalism health care would still be in the dark ages

 
 
Conjecture with no way to prove it.  Might be true, might not.  We will never know.  I do know that charging my brother in law well over $1 million to live is not fair nor reasonable.  If he did not have insurance it is quite likely that he would be dead.  That is not a health care system I support.

 

[PHXConx]

If you are trying to imply that what are now current day republicans were the ones who were advocating civil rights and sufferage, republican does not mean what you think it does.  The ideaologies changed drastically in the 50's/60's.
 
yup now aparently civil rights no longer means impowering the individual its taking from others to give to them.  
 
Its no longer about giving minorities the tools to protect themselves its about disarming them and we lose our minds over Ferguson but no one is rioting in Chicago about the black on black violence...
 
dont get me wrong i think the police brutality in fergusen is appalling but then again i also think its appalling when the police overstep their bounds no matter the race of the victim... but too often when its a white victim it gets overlooked by liberals... 
 
Depends on what polls you look at and how they are worded.  Many/most do want universal care.
 
oh right even democrats poll heavily against it... 
 

 
Business influences changed the system back in the 60/70's.  Misguided then as it is now.  Why would I think twice about revamping a broken FUBAR health care system?  Call it what ever name you want.  I'm tired of getting bent over by insurance companies who's goal is to take my money and trying not to pay out on a claim.
 
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d093:S14: dont let history smack you in the face too hard...
 
S.14 
Latest Title: Health Maintenance Organization Act 
Sponsor: Sen Kennedy, Edward M. [MA] (introduced 1/4/1973)      Cosponsors (16) 
Related Bills: H.R.7974 
Latest Major Action: 12/29/1973 Public law 93-222. 
 
 
I'm not going any where.  I'm staying here and trying to change the system.  America is not a love it or leave it place.  Women did not like it and they changed it.  Blacks did not like it and they fought like hell to change it.  That is the way the system works.  I am going to try and change it.
 
of course you are... now a product being forced to be bought by the american people is equal to suffrage acts...MY GOD..  its interesting you are ok with ends justifying the means for health care, but what happens if a government in the future requires not only every american citizen to buy a gun, but be proficient in its use?  or face taxation?
 
will those ends justify the means?  will you be for it then?  somehow your true colors will show though 
 
 
If the offer to pay for me to move were fair I would definitely consider it.  Been to several places in Europe that are high on my list of places I would love to live.

 
me too, so when i retire maybe i can watch you tell Europeans that they need to bend to your whims then too lol 

 

[SparrowHawk]

More profit in healthy people?  How many healthy people drop $1 million for two heart valves and a gall blader removal?  Healthy people do not go to hospitals or doctors.  Preventatve care is always chaeper than emergency care.  That is the entire idea behind universal health care.
 
Conjecture that may or may not be true.  No way to predict the future. 
 
Ecuadore, SE Asia, India have built up a system based on medical vacation.  PLaces like Europe have asystem designed for their populace.  Two different business plans.  The locals in SE Asia, India and such cannot afford the health care in their own countries from what I have read.  Also, look who is going to these medical vacation spots?  Not the Europeans.  Mainly funded by US citizens who cannot afford the US health care.
 
These places have existed long before ACA came on the scene.  I have been reading and hearing about medical tourism for 15-20 years already.  As I have said, I'm not a huge fan of ACA.  It was a bad compromise.  I wish Obama had stuck by his guns and ramed a single payer through Congress when he had both the chambers.  Too many members of COngress were chicken chits and would not back it.  I'm pretty sure it will happen eventually.  The existing system cannot survive. 

Try to spell Ecuador correctly when you post as I am strongly considering become an ex pat there. Funny Medical Tourism is a recent event for Ecuador AND Health services are available country wide. However when you get outside the big cities it can get dicey. Secondly Ecuador has both a private health insurance set up as well as a public program. Ecuador also uses the USD as it's currency so it's easy to compare prices. In Cuenca many ex pats don't even have insurance or the public plan. The cost is so low many just pay as they go.
 
If you ever left the States you'd figure out quick enough that a lot has changed and we are no longer at the top in a lot of areas. ME? I figure if I'm living in a country that is fast becoming a third world banana republic I might as well move to a real one that costs less.
 
From US News and World Report- Cuenca’s five top hospitals have joined together to offer a package deal. The medical tourist (or retiree) is provided with an ID card that entitles you to a package of exams at standard prices at the facility of your choice. You sign up for the bundle of medical services that best suits your needs. Prices range from $66 to $401 for the entire suite. Here are some examples:

• Mammogram: $40
• Chest X-ray: $25
• PSA test: $15
• Cholesterol workup (Cholesterol, HDL, LDL, and triglycerides): $8
• EKG: $25
• EEG: $60

One important advantage of medical care in Ecuador is that the results and records belong to the patient. If you would prefer to carry insurance, coverage can be extremely inexpensive in Cuenca. For example, premiums cost less than $60 per month for complete coverage for a 60-year-old male.
Adios, Northeast

 

[PHXConx]

 
 
Conjecture with no way to prove it.  Might be true, might not.  We will never know.  I do know that charging my brother in law well over $1 million to live is not fair nor reasonable.  If he did not have insurance it is quite likely that he would be dead.  That is not a health care system I support.

you mean other than the state of affairs just 200 - 500 years  years ago when Europe went from a feudal society to one based in capitilsm?  and the changes in health care over that same period as based on the entire history prior to that?
 
no way to prove that?  huh... 
 
but you follow that with something that actually cant be proven, i dont know neither do you whether your brother would be dead or alive with or without insurance... unless you have a time machine and can show the differences?