- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
Pilot seniority issues AA/US
- Thread starter Hopeful
- Start date
I see no harmony in bringing these 3 groups together. You already have two groups that can't get together and now you want to introduce a 3rd party to the dance that is regarded as the most "opinionated"in the industry. Ask a 20 year AA F/O how he is going to feel about flying with a West Captain who only has 13 years. Oh, and let's not forget the TWA group.
Can you say quagmire?
Can you say quagmire?
OP
- Dec 21, 2002
- 5,998
- 347
EXACTLY. THANK YOU. This is why David Bates and the rest of the APA leaders are complete morons. Their strategies are flawed at best, and none of the membership seems to realize that as messed up as Jeff Brundage is in his approach, APA leadership is just as bad.
Jesus guys, when does common sense step in? The hate between AA and APA is the fault of BOTH SIDES. Stop living in the past, move forward, get over it. If you guys are so sure that there are better management teams out there, go spend some money with your experts and pick them out, then go to the Creditors Board and propose you will accept all the necessary concessions if they hire this "awesome" management team you seem to think is out there. If its about AA management, put your money where your mouth is.
If its AA's management team, and not the industry, why has NO MANAGEMENT TEAM since the 70s been able to be successful without massive cost cutting? How is it mangement's fault that all of the low cost carriers have ensured ticket prices have not gone up much in 20 years?
Seriously? Stop already. Just stop. You all need to talk to a large portion of the working poopulation of this country, middle mangement included, and you will realize how good, even under the new proposed contract from AA, you guys have it. Stop whining, enjoy the fact that you get to live a dream of flying airplanes for a living, or go find something else to do for a living. No one is forcing you to fly or work for AA. If they are so bad, go find another job.
I know plenty of people with TONS of education, training and unique skill sets who wish they could live in Philly and work in Miami; or run a business on the side while they are getting paid 60-150k a year to work their "job". Serioulsly, if you think management teams have it so easy, go back to school and go join an airline management team.
Enough already.
Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757
Another clueless post by 777 / 767 / 757 love.
I'd get my Lab in for a rebuttal, but I'd have to translate it for you, and she has ADD attacks when squirrels run by in the yard, so it would take forever. Still, it would raise the IQ of your post by a significant amount.
First, the piece is a typical hit piece designed to influence the ignorant masses by guess who?, Ted Reed. I doubt he thought this one up by himself without some prodding from Centreport. Insults aside, let's look at the facts.
First, while APA pilots have some concerns about the LCC deal, once they've looked at the facts, the seniority issues become small potatoes. If Teddy Reddy had half a brain and did soem research, he might have noticed why the deal is possible now vs 10 years ago. The age demographics make it possible unlike in the past. LCC/East and West have has their bad blood in the past. what makes the APA deal possible is the retirements coming at LCC. In the next 7 years, 40% of LCC's pilots retire, most from the east. With LCC combined with AA, it's 25% of the total group, and AA's retirements really kick in after that. It would be possible in the past, it is now. Teddy covered a little of what may happen with fences. If Parker wants to run an airline network that competes with DAL/UAL, then it's doubtful he will stagnate or slash a significant amount of current LCC/AA flying like the idiot managers have done in the past. Passing a large chunk of your flying to another carrier for code sharing worked so well with Eagle that it consistently ranked last of all US carriers for years.
Second, spare us the little snide comment regarding the pilot "job" as you call it. outside of a 150 guys flying the cake 9 day month Asia trips, running a second career is for somebody without a life. for the past 20 years, my time away from base averaged 60-70 hours a week away, and not much of that time was spent lollygagging around hotels. As for bringing the "dream of flying" into the compensation equation, you just demonstrate your cluelessness.
As for the "educated" management team, just consider this. At AA I've flown with Wharton MBA's, practicing Physicians, practicing DDS's, and Ivy League Attorneys. Other AA pilots have been Generals and Admirals commanding more lives at a greater risk and national importance than any AA managers. the bench is deep friend. in my first decade here, I never bought into the "we can do better" groupthink. In the last 10, most the management as witnessed by their actions could be replaced within a week and the airline wouldn't miss a beat.
I'd get my Lab in for a rebuttal, but I'd have to translate it for you, and she has ADD attacks when squirrels run by in the yard, so it would take forever. Still, it would raise the IQ of your post by a significant amount.
First, the piece is a typical hit piece designed to influence the ignorant masses by guess who?, Ted Reed. I doubt he thought this one up by himself without some prodding from Centreport. Insults aside, let's look at the facts.
First, while APA pilots have some concerns about the LCC deal, once they've looked at the facts, the seniority issues become small potatoes. If Teddy Reddy had half a brain and did soem research, he might have noticed why the deal is possible now vs 10 years ago. The age demographics make it possible unlike in the past. LCC/East and West have has their bad blood in the past. what makes the APA deal possible is the retirements coming at LCC. In the next 7 years, 40% of LCC's pilots retire, most from the east. With LCC combined with AA, it's 25% of the total group, and AA's retirements really kick in after that. It would be possible in the past, it is now. Teddy covered a little of what may happen with fences. If Parker wants to run an airline network that competes with DAL/UAL, then it's doubtful he will stagnate or slash a significant amount of current LCC/AA flying like the idiot managers have done in the past. Passing a large chunk of your flying to another carrier for code sharing worked so well with Eagle that it consistently ranked last of all US carriers for years.
Second, spare us the little snide comment regarding the pilot "job" as you call it. outside of a 150 guys flying the cake 9 day month Asia trips, running a second career is for somebody without a life. for the past 20 years, my time away from base averaged 60-70 hours a week away, and not much of that time was spent lollygagging around hotels. As for bringing the "dream of flying" into the compensation equation, you just demonstrate your cluelessness.
As for the "educated" management team, just consider this. At AA I've flown with Wharton MBA's, practicing Physicians, practicing DDS's, and Ivy League Attorneys. Other AA pilots have been Generals and Admirals commanding more lives at a greater risk and national importance than any AA managers. the bench is deep friend. in my first decade here, I never bought into the "we can do better" groupthink. In the last 10, most the management as witnessed by their actions could be replaced within a week and the airline wouldn't miss a beat.
Mach85ER,
While I don't subscribe to the rant of 777/767/757 love, I really hope the pilots plan of putting all their eggs in the US basket does not backfire on them.
While I don't subscribe to the rant of 777/767/757 love, I really hope the pilots plan of putting all their eggs in the US basket does not backfire on them.
BoeingBoy
Veteran
- Nov 9, 2003
- 16,512
- 5,865
Interesting comparison of comments in one post. Every one of those 150 guys flying the milk runs to Asia must be one of those doctors, dentists, attorneys, generals, or admirals...how deep is that bench going to be when they retire?
Jim
Yes, attack those who express opinions different then yours. Bad news, you can be replaced. There are more pilots then positions.
You must be the guy who sits around ops Monday morning talking about "how much better they could do it" when talking about a football game, AFTER IT HAS HAPPANED. You think management has it so good, and you have it so bad, QUIT, and go get another job.
Oh, and I'm not clueless or ignoratn like you, I was just raised by a AA pilot who loved his job and what he did. 20 years......you're a rookie still.
No one is forcing you to stay, and that is what the REST OF THE WORLD DEALS WITH. When we don't like our company or our compensation, we either suck it up or leave. Try doing the same.
You are the porblem with your porfession. I saw a email from a S80 Captain who actually expressed a common sense opinon, wish he would post on here, though I'm sure he would just be ripped apart by the "smart guys" like you. The guys who believe they are entitled to certain things.
You don't like you job, the pay or the hours, QUIT. No one forcing you to stay, and I bet there are a whole bunch of pilots out there that would take your job in a heatbeat.
Cheers,
777 / 767 / 757
You might want to take to talking about something you actually know something about. It woud probably be better for your image.
Or, maybe, you could spend your time devaluing your own profession, or job, or whatever you do... and figuring out ways to help others devalue it even more.
Leave ours alone. You obviously do not understand it, or have a clue what it is worth.
AA is toast without major structural changes. AA's strategy of playing defense until United and/or US liquidated failed, and the mergers of NW/DAL and UA/CAL were the final, fatal blows.
The pay and job cuts this management are seeking to impose will not fix the problem. They will not even make a dent in it, and they are unnecessary. They will not create a break-even business, much less a profitable one. This show has played too many times for even the simplest mind to believe that they will.
Rerunning the movie isn't going to change the ending.
BTW, being raised by an AA pilot does not make you an authority, or even informed, about this business, or any of the skilled and dedicated people who make it work. I am, however, sorry that he/she forgot to teach you manners, compassion, reason, or the value of his/her profession.
Goodnight
Similar threads
