prefunding estimate is back! the hard sale is back!

[1AA]

Speaking of integrity. You were on the negotiating committee right? The committee voted to bring this TA back to the membership right? Once that vote is made isn't it your duty as a committee member to support the decision of the committee and set aside your differences? Your actions so far say alot about your INTEGRITY....just saying

The vote was high jacked by the International. You must have missed the memo.
People were brought in to vote that should not have been there. But you see it as a democratic process. No surprise coming from you. Same LBO as the last with a few minor changes. Last time the union said we are not endorsing this either way. Now they are endorsing it with lies and fear. But you see it as a democratic process. TWU democracy is not democracy as we all grew up with in this country. I hope the weak minded see through all this fear lies and intimidation and vote NO.
What happened to "Fight Like Hell" ???????

 

[Vortilon]

Speaking of integrity. You were on the negotiating committee right? The committee voted to bring this TA back to the membership right? Once that vote is made isn't it your duty as a committee member to support the decision of the committee and set aside your differences? Your actions so far say alot about your INTEGRITY....just saying

Now that is funny, you have a fleet service clerk and some random non licensed mechanic from Tulsa calling for a roll call vote. That BTW, went against the wishes of every line maintenance local as well as AFW. This smacks of Local 514s leadership selling out the entire M & R group for their own best interests as well as the Internationals and the company's. The rest of us have to suck it up right? There is absolutely nothing in this offer that I see as an improvement. In fact, with a deal like this - what is the point of having a union?

 

[Lloyd Grey]

The court will decide all aspects of the matching issue.
After kicking in over $300,000 personally, - each of us - since 2003, they want us to jump at an extra $6K. You have just been insulted again.

Now that the shoe is on the other foot, let the company understand what it means to wAAit. I'm voting NO!

 

[olderguyAMT]

• Buster CRC, on 19 July 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:
  
  Well that and this time they have the 514 road show going around Tulsa with the hard sale and the scare tactics. My buddy at the base said they are saying this is really IT this time. So I guess its the last last "no #### this time" offer...lol
  The word today was if voted down hangars 5 and 6 will be given back to the city and all that work oursourced. I guess there were too many upset people on Wednesday so they changed tactics on Thursday. Can we have a recall election in Tulsa?
• call their bluff tell em to outsource it then.

The company match plus interest, is our money, and can't be touched in BK, as it has gone into a trust account. Grubby co. lawyers are trying to screw us in court. Insult upon insult. The prefunding agreement was on the local 562 website, but, now can't find it. This is reason for a NO vote, all by itself.
See letter of agreement in July T/A.

 

[olderguyAMT]

Now that is funny, you have a fleet service clerk and some random non licensed mechanic from Tulsa calling for a roll call vote. That BTW, went against the wishes of every line maintenance local as well as AFW. This smacks of Local 514s leadership selling out the entire M & R group for their own best interests as well as the Internationals and the company's. The rest of us have to suck it up right? There is absolutely nothing in this offer that I see as an improvement. In fact, with a deal like this - what is the point of having a union?

You make a great case for signing an AMFA card. Our union needs to be more democratic.

 

[TWU informer]

Speaking of integrity. You were on the negotiating committee right? The committee voted to bring this TA back to the membership right? Once that vote is made isn't it your duty as a committee member to support the decision of the committee and set aside your differences? Your actions so far say alot about your INTEGRITY....just saying

Was the vote to bring it back?
Or to support passage of it?
Big difference

Are you trying to force Bob to support this P.O.S.?

 

[1AA]

The company match plus interest, is our money, and can't be touched in BK, as it has gone into a trust account. Grubby co. lawyers are trying to screw us in court. Insult upon insult. The prefunding agreement was on the local 562 website, but, now can't find it. This is reason for a NO vote, all by itself.
See letter of agreement in July T/A.

 

[whoop whoop]

Would you leave for $50,000?

I'm not a mechanic for AA, but I would be willing to give the first $1,000 to get rid of this person from our profession. HAHAHA!!!

 

[Bob Owens]

Speaking of integrity. You were on the negotiating committee right? The committee voted to bring this TA back to the membership right? Once that vote is made isn't it your duty as a committee member to support the decision of the committee and set aside your differences? Your actions so far say alot about your INTEGRITY....just saying

NOPE, my duty is not to a committee but to the members especially when the vote is done by the weighted Roll call vote.
You act as if the membership is the opposing party.

Look at how screwed up this whole thing is, a guy gets 500 votes in a Local with 6000 members yet he can vote as if he got 6000 votes and outvote leaders that in total recieved more votes than he did. So if that guy decides he is in favor of a deal then according to you we should all simply roll over on our beliefs and support him?

Then there's the Committee. There are 8 guys from Title II, two of them arent even from Title II, they are Fleet Service Clerks, and another guy no longer holds an elected position as he was voted out by his members months ago, but he is still there, between the 8 of them they represent less than 2000 Title II guys, 6 Line maintence guys representing around 3500 guys, AFW and Tulsa. In the meantime the International uses numbers for the Roll call from 2007, many line stations have seen significant growth over THE LAST 5 YEARS, especially Miami and Dallas but in the Roll Call they do not count, but the hundreds of guys that are no longer in Tulsa do count, even though Tulsa has gone through two election cycles since that number was set. So what did the company do? They threw a few crumbs at Tulsa and a few crumbs at Title II. They've convinced some at Tulsa that they should compare themselves to TIMCO and this industry as whole does not treat Facilities very good so the "Committee" by roll call just to make sure votes to bring it back to the members who will vote on it. The one Line President who voted in favor has been agreeable to any concession thats come down the pike, I have no idea what his deal is but his Local probably wont exist very much longer. Despite the fact that his membership is nearly 100% ex-TWA he offered no support when I brought up the point that we should try to roll system protection up so these guys are covered as well.

Then you turn around and say that even though we believe that this will ruin our chances of restoring our profession within our lifetime, pushed through by a Committee of Fleet service clerks and non-A&Ps who are afraid every time the company says BOO that the rest of us should support it? You are one strange fellow with even stranger preconceptions on what this whole thing called Unionism is all about.

 

[olderguyAMT]

NOPE, my duty is not to a committee but to the members especially when the vote is done by the weighted Roll call vote.
You act as if the membership is the opposing party.

Look at how screwed up this whole thing is, a guy gets 500 votes in a Local with 6000 members yet he can vote as if he got 6000 votes and outvote leaders that in total recieved more votes than he did. So if that guy decides he is in favor of a deal then according to you we should all simply roll over on our beliefs and support him?

Then there's the Committee. There are 8 guys from Title II, two of them arent even from Title II, they are Fleet Service Clerks, and another guy no longer holds an elected position as he was voted out by his members months ago, but he is still there, between the 8 of them they represent less than 2000 Title II guys, 6 Line maintence guys representing around 3500 guys and Tulsa. In the meantime the International uses numbers for the Roll call from 2007, many line stations have seen significant growth since then, especially Miami and Dallas but in the Roll Call they do not count, but the hundreds of guys that are no longer in Tulsa do count, even though Tulsa has gone through two election cycles since that number was set. So what did the company do, they threw a few crumbs at Tulsa and a few crumbs at Title II. they've convinced some at Tulsa that they should compare themselves to TIMCO and this industry as whole does not treat Facilities very good so the "Committee" votes to bring it back to the members who will vote on it. You turn around and say that even though we beleieve that this will ruin our chances of restoring our profession within our lifetime, pushed through by a Committee of Fleet service clerks and non-A&Ps that the rest of us should support it? You are one strange fellow with even stranger preconceptions on what this whole thing called Unionism is all about.

Sounds like manipulation to me, just to push it thru. Little Jimmy in the background calling the shots?

 

[olderguyAMT]

Just looked at my refund and it appears I'm pretty close on my estimate of $50,000.00 if the Section 1114 is successful for someone of the age of 45 meeting the 15 years of service decided to leave AA. Not bad traveling money while beating the path for new employment...

high Speed, time to get out your calculator or your tax software and run some numbers.
Calculate the increases to your taxes, your adjusted gross income as a result of the early out , and don't forget the AMT . I am talking about the Alternative Income Tax.
Your wheelbarrrow full of cash just turned into a little red wagon. Not really that much mula.

 

[Bob Owens]

In fact, with a deal like this - what is the point of having a union?

When you consider that Jet Blue and Delta, (wont even bring up non-union Fed Ex) both nonunion, earn an average of nearly $20,000 a year more than us it seems that being in a Union incurrs a financial penalty in excess of 20% compared to our non-union counterparts, not including what we pay in dues. So in answer to your post, if we vote this in the point is that you get to sell your labor cheaper so AA can buy more of it , the company can reach their goal of $3 billion in profits and the International can keep giving themselves generous raises and benefits unlike what they tell us is reasonable to expect I guess. Consider yourself to be a "Ragged Trousered Philanthropist".

 

[Overspeed]

high Speed, time to get out your calculator or your tax software and run some numbers.
Calculate the increases to your taxes, your adjusted gross income as a result of the early out , and don't forget the AMT . I am talking about the Alternative Income Tax.
Your wheelbarrrow full of cash just turned into a little red wagon. Not really that much mula.

So if you received the money as part of a pay raise would you not be taxed on it?

I would speak to a tax person to find out how to shelter some or most of it. A tax free annuity perhaps. Or maybe invest in a Bain Capital offshore fund.

 

[Overspeed]

When you consider that Jet Blue and Delta, (wont even bring up non-union Fed Ex) both nonunion, earn an average of nearly $20,000 a year more than us it seems that being in a Union incurrs a financial penalty in excess of 20% compared to our non-union counterparts, not including what we pay in dues. So in answer to your post, if we vote this in the point is that you get to sell your labor cheaper so AA can buy more of it , the company can reach their goal of $3 billion in profits and the International can keep giving themselves generous raises and benefits unlike what they tell us is reasonable to expect I guess. Consider yourself to be a "Ragged Trousered Philanthropist".

And if we had voted in the 2010 TA we would be making more than DL and jetBlue for the last two years. Thanks for the no vote recommendation.

 

[High Speed Steel]

high Speed, time to get out your calculator or your tax software and run some numbers.
Calculate the increases to your taxes, your adjusted gross income as a result of the early out , and don't forget the AMT . I am talking about the Alternative Income Tax.
Your wheelbarrrow full of cash just turned into a little red wagon. Not really that much mula.

Hey I'm only showing there are options if this TA is voted in that won't be available if rejeted. Showing "potential totals" with what I'm reading in the book not claiming they should be audited for accuracy.....If you vote for the TA and can't stand it any longer you have an option, take the money and run.....