Sodas $3 Pillows and Blankets $5 apiece

[elixir]

I think militant unions are more a by product of unions not management, in most unionized industries they are the norm not the exception.

Well, maybe, but I submit that all things being equal, if an employer treats his employees fairly, honestly, and respectfully...unions would go away. Unions are in the business of being a union...take ALPA for example...I've carried an ALPA card for over 12 years...and it's a "franchise" as someone described elsewhere. If there was company "peace" at ABC company, the purpose of the union would evaporate...and I think some unions understand that, and in "self-preservation" they stir the pot.

So, at some level, I agree with you, but in more cases than not, at least airlines, unions are actually required to keep the company as honest as possible when they try to be otherwise.

 

[jimntx]

The reasons other companies can not seem to reproduce that culture is because they don't want to. At AMR, management brings a whole new definition to Theory X management style. I sometimes think that they don't believe employees can go to the lav without proper supervision.

Management in the U.S. in general is the old authoritarian philosophy. One of the best managers I ever knew was a woman at Texaco whose employees would have followed her off the roof of the building if she said it was what they needed to do. I asked her what was her secret. She said, and I quote, "Jim, the day I became a good manager is the day I realized my employees knew how to do their jobs better than I did. My job is to run interference for them, and otherwise stay the hell out of their way. If I am not needed to fight a political battle for one of my guys (generic, not all male), I shut myself in my office and play solitaire on the computer."

Now, that is a manager.

 

[elixir]

Again if it is so easy, just be nice to the employees why has nobody been able to reproduce it? Look at the other unionized industries, the sucessful union/company realtionships are the exception not the rule! Compare that with the non union industries and it is the rule not the exception!
Who is the ones wearing rose colored glasses or drinking the coolaide?

Dude, who said it was EASY doing it the right way? It's actually much, much HARDER for SWA to keep their culture intact...but they do because the benefits are reflected in the spreadsheets. Lets see, take the easy way...slash and burn, go BK.....or actually do what is required to keep the company on track without losing your biggest assets...the employees.

To them, it's about "branding"...and the "product image"...

Happy-go-lucky employees having a good time and enjoying their jobs...it's contagious...it's attractive...and (gasp) pleasant to be around...hey, we all know SWA is NOT always the cheapest ticket, but people flock to them anyway...you tell me.

No offense, but I think you have it all wrong.

 

[N965VJ]

That’s not to say WN does not have employee problems.

IIRC there was a major spat between FAs and crew schedulers. The solution was to have the two employee groups spend some time in each other’s environment. In the end, it worked out.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Well, maybe, but I submit that all things being equal, if an employer treats his employees fairly, honestly, and respectfully...unions would go away. Unions are in the business of being a union...take ALPA for example...I've carried an ALPA card for over 12 years...and it's a "franchise" as someone described elsewhere. If there was company "peace" at ABC company, the purpose of the union would evaporate...and I think some unions understand that, and in "self-preservation" they stir the pot.

So, at some level, I agree with you, but in more cases than not, at least airlines, unions are actually required to keep the company as honest as possible when they try to be otherwise.

Then why does SWA one of the top companies in the world to work for have unions?

 

[elixir]

That’s not to say WN does not have employee problems.

IIRC there was a major spat between FAs and crew schedulers. The solution was to have the two employee groups spend some time in each other’s environment. In the end, it worked out.

Oh, there have been numerous "issues" at SWA...FA's...the "newer" pilots who were paid differently than their predecessors...and as you suggested, rather than issue a directive memo with a threat...they found a way to make each work group understand each other's issues...win-win.

And a more well thought out and creative solution for the long term...nastygram memos tend to divide.

The SWA "culture" is their biggest asset...and they know it.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Management in the U.S. in general is the old authoritarian philosophy. One of the best managers I ever knew was a woman at Texaco whose employees would have followed her off the roof of the building if she said it was what they needed to do. I asked her what was her secret. She said, and I quote, "Jim, the day I became a good manager is the day I realized my employees knew how to do their jobs better than I did. My job is to run interference for them, and otherwise stay the hell out of their way.

That is Doug's management style also,he has said that many times. If old hardline middle management is the problem (Which I suspect in many cases it is), they need to be called on it.

 

[elixir]

Then why does SWA one of the top companies in the world to work for have unions?

Because the employee groups want to keep it this way. Smart. And why I disagree that you claim Herb could disband the unions...no, I don't think so.

 

[SolidCactus]

I once had a nice chat with a SWA flight attendant and I asked her this same question. She said, because it doesn't matter what the contract says, the company and our management treat us with respect, and they do things for us that are not in our contract. They care about us - exactly her words.

The moral of the story is, if it aint broke, dont fix it. Why would SWA need to get rid of the union?

It wouldnt be hard for US to build an SWA culture. It is all about expectations. Exceed the expectation of your employees and your customers, and almost all of the problems will fix themselves.

 

[Dog Wonder]

That is Doug's management style also,he has said that many times. If old hardline middle management is the problem (Which I suspect in many cases it is), they need to be called on it.

It is tough deciding who to blame, militant unions, old hardline middle management, bad genetics in the workforce.

Keep grasping at straws.

 

[UPNAWAY]

It is tough deciding who to blame, militant unions, old hardline middle management, bad genetics in the workforce.

Keep grasping at straws.

OK you're right, it is all Tempes fault, everything before them was always uber wunderbar, lets move on!

What was Einstein's famous quote? Something like: Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

 

[elixir]

OK you're right, it is all Tempes fault, everything before them was always uber wunderbar, lets move on!

What was Einstein's famous quote? Something like: Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

I'm curious, what exactly are you suggesting? Get rid of all unions at USAirways?

serious question.

 

[UPNAWAY]

No I am suggesting that nothing significant will change in the employees attitude until the vast majority of people who have been here 20+ years have all retired and hopefuly management has done enough correctly during that time that the next generation will not just follow the lead of the last.

 

[elixir]

No I am suggesting that nothing significant will change in the employees attitude until the vast majority of people who have been here 20+ years have all retired and hopefuly management has done enough correctly during that time that the next generation will not just follow the lead of the last.

OK thanks for a straight answer...this is not flamebait...should I assume your're talking about the East group? I'm guessing there's not many 20+ guys out West.

 

[UPNAWAY]

Yes, although there are plenty of malcontents on the west too it is just not the predominate group.