Something Evil, This Way Comes

diogenes said:
Election Day is right around the corner - who wants a second serving of the past 4 years?
[post="183507"][/post]​

I do. I don't want to go back to the days of treating terrorism as a mere law enforcement issue. I'd much rather our President drop bombs on the as*hole sc*m
in whatever ratholes they're in than paper them with subpoenas, grand jury indictments, etc as Kerry would do (just like his Democratic predecessor did for 8 years). Kerry has stated that he would strike back at the terrorists after they hit us again. GWB will continue playing offense. Hand-wringing liberals who lament about what we did to deserve 9/11 and examine every move against terrorists seven ways to Sunday with their 20/20 hindsight don't deserve my vote. If someone like Kerry had been President on Dec 7, 1941, I'd imagine he would have staged a bombing raid against some Japanese target, then called it a day until they struck again. Bush has a very clear picture of the enemy we're facing and what must be done to defeat them. With the libs, nothing is black and white, it's all nuanced (and you have to get unanimous French and U.N. approval before you dare take any action to defend your own interests).
 
AgMedallion said:
I do. I don't want to go back to the days of treating terrorism as a mere law enforcement issue. I'd much rather our President drop bombs on the as*hole sc*m
in whatever ratholes they're in than paper them with subpoenas, grand jury indictments, etc as Kerry would do (just like his Democratic predecessor did for 8 years). Kerry has stated that he would strike back at the terrorists after they hit us again. GWB will continue playing offense. Hand-wringing liberals who lament about what we did to deserve 9/11 and examine every move against terrorists seven ways to Sunday with their 20/20 hindsight don't deserve my vote. If someone like Kerry had been President on Dec 7, 1941, I'd imagine he would have staged a bombing raid against some Japanese target, then called it a day until they struck again. Bush has a very clear picture of the enemy we're facing and what must be done to defeat them. With the libs, nothing is black and white, it's all nuanced (and you have to get unanimous French and U.N. approval before you dare take any action to defend your own interests).
[post="185505"][/post]​

Agmedallion, you couldn't be more wrong. Bush has a clear vision of something, but it ain't our "enemy". Osama bin Laden masterminded the attacks on America, not Saddam Hussein, but Osama "isn't that important" anymore. You know, if Kerry were FDR and did as you said, at least he would be hitting the country responsible for it and not some "third party" target that was "justified" by using blurry information. Heck...if Bush were president on Dec 7, 1941, he most likely would have bombed the daylights out of Vietnam and declared "mission accomplished". That's pretty much what he did with Iraq.

I believe that Kerry would rather spend billions of dollars protecting US citizens right here at home rather than stir up a hornets nest of hatred in the entire middle east and then claiming we are somehow "safer" since it's been 3 years since 9/11 and we haven't had a second strike on US soil. You call Clinton a failure because the WTC was downed 8 years after their first attempt. Yet you are quick to proclaim Bush's strategy as successful after only 3 years. Tell you what though....if every US soldier is back home and we haven't had any strikes on our soil after 5 more years, I'll tell you that Bush was right. But I don't think our troops will be home anywhere close to 5 years from now. And I don't think we've seen the last attack on our soil either.

It doesn't matter now anyhow...regardless of who is elected, we are at war over there for at least another 15 years. And I'm being quite "conservative" in that guess.
 
AgMedallion said:
If someone like Kerry had been President on Dec 7, 1941, I'd imagine he would have staged a bombing raid against some Japanese target, then called it a day until they struck again.
[post="185505"][/post]​

You forget, someone like Kerry WAS President on December 7, 1941. That same 'hand wringing liberal' who had just saved the nation from the economic collapse that the Republican party and their lassiez faire economics had set for it. Remember also that it was another 'hand wringing liberal' who nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

As for 'coddling' or negotiating with terrorists, it was Reagan who sold arms to the terrorists in exchange for hostages, not Kerry.
 
NWA/AMT said:
As for 'coddling' or negotiating with terrorists, it was Reagan who sold arms to the terrorists in exchange for hostages, not Kerry.
[post="185666"][/post]​


What hostages are you referring to here?
 
KCFlyer said:
You know, if Kerry were FDR and did as you said, at least he would be hitting the country responsible for it and not some "third party" target that was "justified" by using blurry information.

That's the liberal's problem. They think that the only enemy is Al Qaeda. They don't realize that the various Islamofascist groups, whether they be Palestinian, Chechen, Arab, Pakistani, Afghani, etc all have the same goals in mind (Holy War against the infidels), whether they are fighting the Americans, Russians, Israelis, etc. and all use the same barbaric methods. Bush gets this simple concept, but the libs fail to see the big picture.


KCFlyer said:
I believe that Kerry would rather spend billions of dollars protecting US citizens right here at home

Exactly the problem. I heard him state that he will respond to attacks on the U.S. by terrorists. He doesn't quite understand that the war has already started. In fact it started in the early 90s. I don't want a President who will respond tit for tat. I'd much rather have a pro-active President who is on the offense, carrying the battle to the sc*mbags where they live rather than having blood shed on American soil, as on 9/11.


KCFlyer said:
rather than stir up a hornets nest of hatred in the entire middle east

Ah yes, the constant mantra of the libs, don't do anything to pis* off the enemy. I have news for you, if they're not po'd, that means your program against them isn't very effective.

KCFlyer said:
and then claiming we are somehow "safer" since it's been 3 years since 9/11 and we haven't had a second strike on US soil.

It's hard to argue with success! That's no guarantee though. It's been said that the terrorists have to get lucky just once.


KCFlyer said:
You call Clinton a failure because the WTC was downed 8 years after their first attempt. Yet you are quick to proclaim Bush's strategy as successful after only 3 years.

I call him a failure because it wasn't only the '93 WTC bombing. It was the USS Cole, the U.S. Embassy bombings in Africa, the Somalia debacle, the Kovar Towers bombing. All Clinton did was launch million dollar cruise missiles to blow up empty $10 tents or destroy aspirin factories. That's when his minions weren't papering the enemy with writs, subpoenas and indictments (Ouch! That's gotta hurt!). Even after the attempted assasination of Bush 41, all Clinton did was launch a strike against Iraqi intelligence HQ, but he made damned sure to do it in the middle of the night so few, if any, Iraqis got killed.




KCFlyer said:
Tell you what though....if every US soldier is back home and we haven't had any strikes on our soil after 5 more years, I'll tell you that Bush was right. But I don't think our troops will be home anywhere close to 5 years from now. And I don't think we've seen the last attack on our soil either.

Unfortunately you're probably right. Iran and North Korea will require force. Negotiation NEVER works with dictators. Neither does appeasement. The libs always like to argue that we can't "only" go after Iraq. "What about Iran and North Korea?", they whine, as if it has to be an all or none strategy and as if we have the resources to do it all at once. War is a terrible, horrible undertaking and only a total idiot or violent dictator relishes resorting to it. But what's the alternative? Wait until they nuke an American city or spread smallpox/anthrax/whatever? Or perhaps take over some elementary school in Peoria and shoot a couple of hundred 3rd and 4th graders in the back? If you think these Islamofascist monsters won't do it, think again. The libs trust in human nature and their looking at the world through rose-colored glasses is all well and good but it's terribly unrealistic and could cost millions of American lives.
 
AgMedallion said:
That's the liberal's problem.
[post="185804"][/post]​

For the record, I am not a liberal. I have a more conservative view of things. I guess I'm like the folks over at the Lone Star Iconoclast, the local hometown paper in Crawford Texas, who is endorsing Kerry, based on some very good observations. Have a click and see for yourself.
 
NWA/AMT said:
You forget, someone like Kerry WAS President on December 7, 1941. That same 'hand wringing liberal' who had just saved the nation from the economic collapse that the Republican party and their lassiez faire economics had set for it. Remember also that it was another 'hand wringing liberal' who nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki.


You couldn't be more wrong! The current Democratic Party is NOT the party of FDR, Truman, JFK or even Scoop Jackson, Zell Miller or Sam Nunn when it comes to Foreign Affairs and military action. People like Kerry, Clinton and Carter
( especially Carter, what a naive fool!!!!) are not cut from the same cloth. Far from it. They like to analyze and study things to death. Then years of diplomacy and negotiation (perhaps appeasement too). Then they want unanimous approval from the U.N. before they take even the most timid of actions. Paralysis through analysis. As Zell Miller has said, he didn't leave the Democratic Party, it left him.

NWA/AMT said:
As for 'coddling' or negotiating with terrorists, it was Reagan who sold arms to the terrorists in exchange for hostages, not Kerry.

You're comparing apples and oranges by pointing to events years ago when the world situation was different. Yesterday's allies can become today's enemies and vice versa. Would you damn George Washington for accepting aid from the Germans because we were fighting them twice in the 20th century?
 
KCFlyer said:
For the record, I am not a liberal. I have a more conservative view of things. I guess I'm like the folks over at the Lone Star Iconoclast, the local hometown paper in Crawford Texas, who is endorsing Kerry, based on some very good observations. Have a click and see for yourself.
[post="185810"][/post]​


The link didn't work, though I heard this on the news the other night. So what? I wouldn't base my vote on what they say anymore than on what the NY Times or the shop which puts together ValuePak envelopes in Butte, Montana says. Kerry is a flip-flopping opportunist who would wait until we're stuck again before he'd do a dam*ed thing, and then only if his French and German buddies (not to mention the U.N.) went along. No thanks. Plus I don't appreciate his calling Vietnam vets war criminals. Don't give me a song and dance about his just repeating what others said. It amounts to the same thing. Spin won't work with me. To be effective, spin should be directed to folks who think that simple words like "is" and "alone" have multiple meanings, even when used in simple sentences. Count me out.
 
AgMedallion said:
NWA/AMT said:
As for 'coddling' or negotiating with terrorists, it was Reagan who sold arms to the terrorists in exchange for hostages, not Kerry.

You're comparing apples and oranges by pointing to events years ago when the world situation was different. Yesterday's allies can become today's enemies and vice versa. Would you damn George Washington for accepting aid from the Germans because we were fighting them twice in the 20th century?
[post="185812"][/post]​

Apples and Oranges? Selling arms to terrorists to release hostages is hunky dory in ANY situation? Selling chemical weapons to Iraq to fight the Iranians, only to have those weapons used against the Iraqi people...then 20 years later citing the use of Chemical weapons against the Iraqi people as horrid, yet citing France as having a financial dealings with Iraq as somehow being a terrible thing?

BTW...did you even read the iconoclast article?
 
KCFlyer said:
Apples and Oranges? Selling arms to terrorists to release hostages is hunky dory in ANY situation?


[post="185823"][/post]​


What hostages do you guy keep referring to here?
 
KCFlyer said:
Do a google search on either "Iran Contra" or "arms for hostages". The answer should become abundantly clear.
[post="185837"][/post]​


So you think that before Regan was even elected, he cut a deal with Iran to free the hostages?
 
FredF said:
What hostages are you referring to here?
[post="185792"][/post]​

Fred, don't be disingenuous, I'm sure you remember the Iran/Contra affair, when Reagan sold arms to Iran, specifically Improved Hawk missles, in exchange for the hostages held by the Iranian sponsored Hezbullah.

Or are you about to give us an explanation about how that never happened and the Iranians got their Hawk missles, made only in the US, from somewhere else?
 
AgMedallion said:
Ah yes, the constant mantra of the libs, don't do anything to pis* off the enemy. I have news for you, if they're not po'd, that means your program against them isn't very effective.
[post="185804"][/post]​

No, what they're saying is that you need to deal with the enemies you have before you go making more, something a five year old could tell you.
 
I was merely trying to find out what hostages were being referred to here. There were hostages that were held in Iran before Regan was elected and there were others later.

That is all I was doing. Trying to find out what hostages were being referred to.

Please don't try to predict comments attributed to me before I even say anything. Based on what hostages are being referred to, I might just stay out of it.

You never know do you?