TA will be announced later today
- Thread starter chasbatl
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Hackman
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- Sep 30, 2003
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Well finny, you might think its miniscule, but the corporate greed is prevalent at nearly all modern companies today. I know you aspire to be one someday while you bootlick your way up. However you cannot deny the non-stop corporate criminal activity in the news almost daily. What planet are you on?
Here is an exerp of a 2002 NY Times article I just ran across at work about corporate criminals;
Greed is Bad, by Paul Krugman.
"The point is ladies and gentlemen greed is good. Greed works, greed is right...and greed, mark my words, will save not only Teldar Paper but the other malfunctioning corporation call the U.S.A."
"Gordon Gekko, the corporate raider who gave that speech in the 1987 movie "Wall Street," got his comeuppance; but in real life his philosophy came to dominate corporate practice. And that is the backstory of the wave of scandal now engulfing American business."
"Let me be clear: I'm not talking about morality, I'm talking about management theory. As people, corporate leaders are no worse (and no better) than they've always been. What changed were the incentives."
"Twenty-five years ago, American corporations bore little resemblance to today's hard nosed institutions. Indeed, by modern standards they were socialist republics. C.E.O. salaries were tiny compared with today's lavish packages, Executives didn't focus on maximizing stock prices; they thought of themselves as serving multiple constituencies, including their employees. The quintessential pre-Gekko corporation was known as Generous Motors."
"These days we are so steeped in the greed-is-good ideology that its hard to imagine that such a system ever worked. In fact, during the generation that followed WWII the nations standard of living doubled. But then, growth faltered-and the corporate raiders arrived"
...more
"Its the truth in the long run reality catches up with you.
But in a few years of illusory achievement can leave an executive immensely wealthy. Ken Lay, Gary Winnick, Chuck Watson, Dennis Koslowski (oop's he's bye-bye)- all will be consoled in their early retirement by nine-figure nest eggs. Unless you go to jail- and does anyone think any of our modern malefactors of great wealth will actually do time?-dishonesty is, hands down, the best policy."
"And no, we are not talking about a few bad apples. Statistics for the last five years show a dramatic divergence between profits companies reported to investors and other measures of profit growth; this is clear evidence that many, PERHAPS MOST, LARGE COMPANIES WERE FUDGING THEIR NUMBERS."
I have no problem with a person as a CEO that's honest, and takes care of his people, who will then in turn take care of the customers. Herb Kelleher(sp?) from SWA is one of the few. He stated "Our employees come first, and the customer comes second." Some concept, seems to work very well for them. Why not NWA?
This is a bunch of meaninless, leftist babble. Yes, poeple that have never been held responsible for turning a profit think that profit motive is "greedy". If not for greed, many of the products you enjoy today would not have been produced. This whole "greed" bit is just another disguised attempt to slam capitalism by those that have no constructive alternatives, just whining and crying about how mean all of the corporate leaders are.
So out of the 10,000+ publicly traded corporations in American, led by roughly a couple hundred thousand executive level decision makers, what percent do you think are evil and corrupt? You've referenced a handful, but that still rounds to 0%.
And please, if your going to reference an economist, try to find one that has some reputable standing in the economics community, rather than this lone leftist economist that the libs trot out every time they try to make an argument for socialism
NewHampshire Black Bears
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- Aug 20, 2002
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IF the TA is approved(and I'm not saying either way), the very next opening will come (via seniority) from a list of AMFA guys, that DID NOT cross.
Over time, that will not be a (how should I say,?) NOT a pleasant thing for you and "OPIE"
Even a (NON) deep thinker like YOU, understands that, "What goes around, comes around" !!!!!
"STAY TUNED"
NH/BB's
PS,
Just curious, what's you $$ deductable on your car Insurance...$500???..........1000 ???
ThirdSeatHero
Veteran
Well, then perhaps your reply was nothing more than meaningless corporate babble. There is absolutely nothing wrong with capitalism, and greed in that pursuit while certainly distasteful to some is to be expected. With that said, capitalism and its pursuit is NO excuse for the CRIMINAL activity which grows more and more prevalent in today's corporate world. True, the previous poster named but a handful of the most notorious of today's offenders, but seriously, do you think that's all there are??? You're incredibly naive if you truly believe those still out there constitute what you say rounds out to 0%
I call it surrendering when they bring back what NW management imposed on them for a vote by the membership only after four short months on strike. And the AMFA was not the only union to "give the finger". The IAM did it at EAL and was SUCCESSFUL because EAL is no longer around. Yes, jobs were lost but Lorenzo was stopped. AT NW, AMFA lost their jobs but NWA is still flying and the executive's bonuses continue unabated.
See above post.
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
It is very interesting to listen to the AMFA boys talk about events before and during the strike. The most interesting though is their reasons for crossing the picket line. It seems that most were very upset that they weren't allowed to vote on any of the offers. Most would have voted no to the offers but the fact that they weren't given the opportunity to vote has really pissed them off. This TA has really gotten them upset because it is going up for vote even though it still goes against the AMFA constitution which is the reason the last offer wasn't put up for vote. They are also unhappy about the fact that the last offer wasn't put up for vote was because AMFA couldn't punish the AMFA Boys that had already crossed.
Favorite AMFA Boy line today: "I wasn't going to lose my job to fight for a bunch of cleaners and custodians that were going to be replaced regardless of what we did."
Favorite AMFA Boy line today: "I wasn't going to lose my job to fight for a bunch of cleaners and custodians that were going to be replaced regardless of what we did."
If only the government would not have forced the cleaners and custodians into AMFA; who would he have blamed then?
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
Of course I cannot answer that question, but I do not think it is a fair question. If the cleaners and custodians were never part of AMFA would this strike still have taken place? Would NWA still have asked for such large concessions from AMFA to begin with? There are way too many variables to ask such a simple question.
Well the cleaners and custodians are gone but the aircraft mechanics, the AMFA ones who crossed, are still working under NWA management's terms. Using this particular AMT's logic, since the "non-AMTS" are gone, NW should have been substantially more generous to the AMFA mechanics.
The UA AMT contract is marginally better than that at NW even though all non-AMT jobs have been eliminated. So it is realistic to surmise that the NW AMFA AMTs fate would have been the same even if the cleaners and custodians were in a different union.
Hackman
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- Sep 30, 2003
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- #41
Like I said finny, I ran across the article at work, I don't read the NY Times liberal rag most the time. I try to judge each article, book, magazine on its own merit. Everyone is allowed an opinion, right? If some of my pals heard you call me a liberal...jeez, I think it might be that funny.
My point is management boy, how much money, yachts, jets, land, and $5000 shower curtains in your mansion is enough? When do you draw the line? Never? When your illicit dealings land 20,000 employees out of work, is it then time to retire after you pay off the judge? Is an ice statue pissing vodka and Jimmy Buffet playing your wife's birthday party on a private island a sign you've arrived?
"We're very sorry about your hard earned money you wasted investing in our company sir, but my wife and I had a great time singing Margaritaville with Jimmy"...
You can back-peddle all you want finny. I only listed the corporate criminals in the article I quoted. If you want me to list all of them, give me a few weeks, I think it might take that long.
I've got no problem with capitalism, I'm an American. The problem is rogue management screwing thousands of hard working wage slaves out of their retirement, 20 to 40 year careers, their homes, and generally destroying lives because they can't run a company. While these despicable corporate thugs enrich themselves beyond reality.
Another example of corporate greed. Run the carrier into bankruptcy, destroy workers lives, and enrich the dumbasses that got the company in the hole in the first place...... http://www.airportbusiness.com/article/art...8&siteSection=3
Garfield1966
Veteran
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Over time, that will not be a (how should I say,?) NOT a pleasant thing for you and "OPIE"
Even a (NON) deep thinker like YOU, understands that, "What goes around, comes around" !!!!!
"STAY TUNED"
NH/BB's
PS,
Just curious, what's you $$ deductable on your car Insurance...$500???..........1000 ???
Are you so impotent that the best you can come up with is a threat against a mans property? You really are a pathetic old man.
I know, I Know .. let me save you the trouble. PTO is a scab and my fon is ringing blah blah blah. Try coming up with some new material will you.
You could come up with a few hundred if you like, that still is going to round to 0% of the total population that you demonize. I'm just trying to put some of this into perspective. You can't apply the actions of a tiny percent of the population to the whole and continue to have any credibility in what you're saying.You can back-peddle all you want finny. I only listed the corporate criminals in the article I quoted. If you want me to list all of them, give me a few weeks, I think it might take that long.
Do you know any poeple that have a position of influence in a corporation? I'm sure it's much easier to demonize a group of people if you've never actually met them. Just because you don't hear news reports about all of the companies that follow the rules and deal with their employees and customers in an honerable way, doesn't mean they don't exist.
FYI, your points would be much more credible if you'd balance your anger with reason on some points. Applying evil intent on a population as a whole that you disagree with is intellectually lazy. Maybe run through the progression of "what would I do if I were running NWA and needed to turn it profitable?" (Don't say raise fares either, because as we've discussed, that won't help)
PlayTheOdds
Veteran
I can see the comparisons you are making but the fact is they were in the same union thus AMFA was pushed harder to protect its dues also. The Majority of the people that were going to loose jobs were the cleaners. How many cleaners voted to strike compared to AMT's? Had the vote been held with just the AMT's would the vote have been the same? Like I said there are just too many variables to make a sound what if scenario.
Well, before the strike there were about 800 cleaners and custodians and about 3,700 AMTs. So the AMTs were the clear majority. At UA, the AMTs were also the majority and they voted YES on a contract that eliminated all non-AMT jobs. Even if the AMFA at NW was comprised of nothing but A&P mechanics the strike would still have occurred. This is because they were the most militant and were totally convinced that the withholding of their skills would bring NW to it's knees. Also, don't forget that the huge concessionary AMFA contract at UA was damaging to AMFA's reputation (remember the we don't believe in concessions line?).So they had to save face at NW.
