The new Northwest...named "Delta"

[North by Northwest]

You may be correct on all of your assumptions, but I do not see why you are so upset. It is entirely likely that when the merger is complete, there will be unions voted in for all work groups and we will all have the protections that you refer to. However there is no reason to go on attack towards DAL people for not having a union before. We have never felt we needed one and so far we have done just fine without one. You say that your pay and benefits are better than ours and that may be the case I am not knowledgeable enough of what both groups each are earning now to know. However I think the differences are small. You seem so hostle towards anyone who is not on your team. Would you have reacted as angry if you were merging with another unionized carrier? I think you probably would. We do have to have an "us against them" mentality. NWA is not a better airline just because it is unionized. Dal is not a better airline because we are non unionized. Are you so angry at this new Delta that you will hate whatever they do no matter what? I am not defending any of the new management yet because I want to give them the benefit of the doubt. Maybe if the merger is successful, the new airline will be so large that it will be very strong and be a big player world wide. What if the new management doesnt have any plans to destroy your life or career due to the fact that we will be a profitable and healthy company. What if next year things a much better and they want to give us a raise and better work rules. You know it is in managements best interest not to have labor disputes. It cost them money. I understand that labor at NWA has had a problem with management but I think it worked both ways. Maybe your unions were not willing to work with management. SW has unions but they have a good relationship with management. That is my point. We have to work together, once the fighting starts it gets real nasty fast. I do not know the future but I am willing to at least wait and see before I get on the "I HATE EVERYTHING THAT MANAGEMENT IS DOING" wagon. Just my opinion.

Cooper, cooper cooper..."However there is no reason to go on attack towards DAL people" I see...it's a Union attack against Delta people when we respond to Delta people telling us how wonderful non union is, and how Unions have failed us ect. It is WE who have the FIRST hand experience with these people. It appears Delta folks think these people are going to somehow change 17 years of behavior JUST BECAUSE they are now at Delta.

I have seen how the Delta machine works to keep you at the bottom, and it is ALMOST as nasty as the experts from NW. Allow me to ask you this, is Delta going to give you what they gave their Unionized pilots upon merger?

As a separate corporation, NW was required to abide by a Union negotiated "me too" clauses by ALPA, AFA, IAM. What one got, the others got...that is what a Union will do for you. And a Union is only as strong as it's members.

What it appears to be is a case of many thinking that Delta is so special that these people will magically change who they are and how they operate. Do you think it was a Delta magic pill that made RAderson become a Delta worshipper over night after almost 15 years at NWA...when he fed us the same malarky?

I have not attacked Delta "people", what I have done is pointed out our almost 18 years with the SAME people that have now taken our company (ours cause we paid BILLIONS for it out of our sweat, pay, labor) and jepardized it YET again. All for a payoff of the SAME people that started the financial problems at NWA almost 2 decades ago.

Had the 60% at Delta crew voted for a Union you might be enjoying the same merger bennies as ALPA from day one. They didn't because they believed "old Delta" would be in charge and they would some how fare better. So they sold everyone else out for their own selfish greed. You think it was coincdence that they waited until AFTER the FA Union election to announce the NW management takeover? Everything is serious strategy with them creatures...they plan years in advance for a fight (the kind that lives road kill)

I would share with you Northwest employees are battle hardened and will NEVER bow down to the same people that ruined our company TWICE over. Many people become un nerved with confrontation...this is not an instance of "don't rock the boat and everything will be alright". It is to a company's advantage to pay you as little as possible far more than risking a fight. How anyone can ignore the history of these people is beyond all sanity to me.

Don't take it personal. IF..this merger happens and they pit "Union against NON Union" it will be at the peril of all employees. Mark my words, THAT is exactly what they will do. It will be the rank and file that will do the dirty work against each other for them. Best of luck to you and all former Delta folks.

 

[southwind]

No, and don't ask any other personal questions on a public board. All crew members were contractually re-instated if they were fired for honoring a legal strike.

I can assure you...I have ALWAYS put actions behind my words.

Ah.........the unionist bucks union tradition. Your crossing a picket line , while damning everyone who's non-union says it all !

Again...........heres hoping people like you take the buy-out and leave the industry all together !

 

[cooper43]

Cooper, cooper cooper..."However there is no reason to go on attack towards DAL people" I see...it's a Union attack against Delta people when we respond to Delta people telling us how wonderful non union is, and how Unions have failed us ect. It is WE who have the FIRST hand experience with these people. It appears Delta folks think these people are going to somehow change 17 years of behavior JUST BECAUSE they are now at Delta.

I have seen how the Delta machine works to keep you at the bottom, and it is ALMOST as nasty as the experts from NW. Allow me to ask you this, is Delta going to give you what they gave their Unionized pilots upon merger?

As a separate corporation, NW was required to abide by a Union negotiated "me too" clauses by ALPA, AFA, IAM. What one got, the others got...that is what a Union will do for you. And a Union is only as strong as it's members.

What it appears to be is a case of many thinking that Delta is so special that these people will magically change who they are and how they operate. Do you think it was a Delta magic pill that made RAderson become a Delta worshipper over night after almost 15 years at NWA...when he fed us the same malarky?

I have not attacked Delta "people", what I have done is pointed out our almost 18 years with the SAME people that have now taken our company (ours cause we paid BILLIONS for it out of our sweat, pay, labor) and jepardized it YET again. All for a payoff of the SAME people that started the financial problems at NWA almost 2 decades ago.

Had the 60% at Delta crew voted for a Union you might be enjoying the same merger bennies as ALPA from day one. They didn't because they believed "old Delta" would be in charge and they would some how fare better. So they sold everyone else out for their own selfish greed. You think it was coincdence that they waited until AFTER the FA Union election to announce the NW management takeover? Everything is serious strategy with them creatures...they plan years in advance for a fight (the kind that lives road kill)

I would share with you Northwest employees are battle hardened and will NEVER bow down to the same people that ruined our company TWICE over. Many people become un nerved with confrontation...this is not an instance of "don't rock the boat and everything will be alright". It is to a company's advantage to pay you as little as possible far more than risking a fight. How anyone can ignore the history of these people is beyond all sanity to me.

Don't take it personal. IF..this merger happens and they pit "Union against NON Union" it will be at the peril of all employees. Mark my words, THAT is exactly what they will do. It will be the rank and file that will do the dirty work against each other for them. Best of luck to you and all former Delta folks.

It is my understanding that the pilots got something like a 3% stake in the new Delta and I am not sure what their raise was, and flight attendants just got a 3% raise and they will get something like a 3.5%stake in the new Delta. Even though we do not have a contract historically every time our pilots recieve a raise of some kind the f/a's usually get one also. Please correct me if I am wrong. Also, you said that Delta keeps us at the bottom, I'm not sure what bottom you are talking about but traditionally Delta has usually been at the top of pay among the legacy carriers. However since bankruptcy we have slipped some. Any pay cuts we inccured during bankruptcy were not due to any management team memeber associated with NWA. Delta has commited to bringing us up to industry standard pay and I believe with this last raise we are getting there but not yet. I'm sure that DL was not the only airline to give things up during the latest indusrty down turn. Since you seem to know our pay package so well please tell me excactly where your pay and benefits are better, and I am not saying that they are, I just am curious as to excatly what you recieve that we do not. Are you getting your information from AFA? Just curious.

 

[Kev3188]

It is my understanding that the pilots got something like a 3% stake in the new Delta and I am not sure what their raise was, and flight attendants just got a 3% raise and they will get something like a 3.5%stake in the new Delta. Even though we do not have a contract historically every time our pilots recieve a raise of some kind the f/a's usually get one also. Please correct me if I am wrong.

You're wrong...

The pilots *alone* get their own stake (It's either 3, 3.5 or 4%-I'll have to look it up).

The rest of us *collectively* -as in F/A's, ACS, ramp, res, AMT's, and so on-get a 4% stake.

No one work group besides the pilots gets their own "cut."

 

[Kev3188]

Ah.........the unionist bucks union tradition. Your crossing a picket line , while damning everyone who's non-union says it all !

What makes you think NxNW crossed? From reading their posts it looks like just the opposite happened. Sounds like you have comprehension problems....Maybe you oughta read things through a couple of times before you type.

Again...........heres hoping people like you take the buy-out and leave the industry all together !

Again.....Here's hoping people like NxNW stick around! While I'm at it, here's hoping I don't have to deal with quislings like you after integration.

Now, immediately report to your supervisor, and tell them what a good boy you've been.

 

[cooper43]

You're wrong...

The pilots *alone* get their own stake (It's either 3, 3.5 or 4%-I'll have to look it up).

The rest of us *collectively* -as in F/A's, ACS, ramp, res, AMT's, and so on-get a 4% stake.

No one work group besides the pilots gets their own "cut."

Ok I uderstand that thier stake is greater than the rest of us but my point was that we are getting a stake also. I admit that I am unclear on the amount of the difference between the pilots and the rest of the employees. I mostly was trying to respond to the statement that NXNW made about us being at the bottom because we are non - union. I do not beleive that to be the case, and I question the accuracy of his statement.

 

[MMB]

What makes you think NxNW crossed? From reading their posts it looks like just the opposite happened. Sounds like you have comprehension problems....Maybe you oughta read things through a couple of times before you type. ...

Maybe you should take your own advice. NxNW stated that he crossed.

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

It is my understanding that the pilots got something like a 3% stake in the new Delta and I am not sure what their raise was, and flight attendants just got a 3% raise and they will get something like a 3.5%stake in the new Delta. Even though we do not have a contract historically every time our pilots recieve a raise of some kind the f/a's usually get one also.

Cooper...please enlighten the board as to what raise FAs received after pilots did in the past 10 years.
Also, that 3% you got July 1st was not technically a "raise". It was a pay reinstatement. You took a 20% pay cut in the Fall of 2005. You've gotten back a total of 7% (4% a few months ago)...they still have 13% more to go. (I'm not complaining, mind you, I'm glad for the 7%, I'm just stating the facts.)Now, you may say "yes, but we now have profit sharing." With oil at 135 a barrel, even Mr Bastian said in his online chat, there would be no profit sharing for 2008. Again, please align pilot raises from 1998 to 2008 with FA's.
(I think you're living in the past or else repeating some mantra you heard from Debbie Delta). Thank you in advance.

 

[Kev3188]

Maybe you should take your own advice. NxNW stated that he crossed.

I didn't read it that way... If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

Either way, it doesn't change my stance on Southwind's lack of a spine...

 

[southwind]

I didn't read it that way... If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.

Either way, it doesn't change my stance on Southwind's lack of a spine...

Oh, so people like you bashing non-union folks is okay, but let the opposite happen and we have no spine ?

Just typical union BULLSH_T !

I will tell you that I have enough of a spine to stand on my own two feet and not depend on other organizations, "UNIONS", to help me keep a job!

Again, tell me how many jobs were saved lately by unions ?
If a company wants to get rid of you "THEY" will get rid of you..........union or no union !

And BTW...........Delta employees make more than NW employess right now.........where's your union?

 

[Kev3188]

Again, tell me how many jobs were saved lately by unions ?

5000+ at NWA alone.

If a company wants to get rid of you "THEY" will get rid of you..........union or no union !

Yup. The difference is that at NW, affected employees have avenues of recourse (exercising seniority, etc.)

And BTW...........Delta employees make more than NW employess right now.........where's your union?

You make nominally more in base rates only. When including everything (sick time, vacation, etc.), we're still miles ahead of our DL counterparts, even after union dues.

If you believe otherwise, please explain, and make sure to show your work...

 

[southwind]

5000+ at NWA alone.

Yup. The difference is that at NW, affected employees have avenues of recourse (exercising seniority, etc.)



You make nominally more in base rates only. When including everything (sick time, vacation, etc.), we're still miles ahead of our DL counterparts, even after union dues.

If you believe otherwise, please explain, and make sure to show your work...

Oh really ? How many times did you strike and how much did your union give back to the company to save these 5000 jobs !
Let's get a mechanic from NW in here to explain how much their union did for them !

WOW...........we have other avenues,just like you, seniority...........without a union !

Vacation time don't pay the bills.......hourly rates do !

 

[Kev3188]

Oh really ? How many times did you strike

Many times historically.

and how much did your union give back to the company to save these 5000 jobs !

The IAM gave 181M. Not sure about any other group; someone else'll have to answer that. BTW, I lowballed that number (when including all classes, it's most likely quite a bit higher)...

More to the point, we kept many many things the company wanted to take-and would've taken, had we not been unionized.

Do you think you fared well in BK? If so, how so? When and how much of your pay rates are you getting back? I know about the 3% raise; with that factored in, how far "down" are you from before?

How about any of the following; how are DL's policies better than NWA's in the following?

Medical costs?

Sick and or OJI accruals (PPT)?

Pension?

Scope?

Overtime rules/distribution?

Transferring between stations?

Bidding of shifts?

Realignment?

Trade day policy?

This doesn't even get into things like grievance procedures, etc.

Let's get a mechanic from NW in here to explain how much their union did for them !

Have at it. I'm talking about the IAM, not the AMFA. In the meantime, try and stay on point.

WOW...........we have other avenues,just like you, seniority...........without a union !

Not according to your colleagues I've spoken to. Nevertheless, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt; please explain your ability to exercise seniority in the case of displacement, and how it's superior to NWA's.

Vacation time don't pay the bills.......hourly rates do !

Sure it does. It pays the same rate as when you're working. Does yours not? Better still, you can be doing things you enjoy off the property. It makes fiscal sense, and it's a quality of life issue. No matter how you slice it, 6 weeks is better than 4 weeks. If you believe differently, please explain why.

You didn't answer my questions previously. Maybe this time I'll have better luck?

 

[North by Northwest]

Maybe you should take your own advice. NxNW stated that he crossed.

People read what they WANT to read. The answer was NO...as in I did not, and will never cross a legal strike. Odd that every one else..including Brokenwrench got it.

 

[North by Northwest]

Ah.........the unionist bucks union tradition. Your crossing a picket line , while damning everyone who's non-union says it all !

Again...........heres hoping people like you take the buy-out and leave the industry all together !

Your illiteracy is on display. A fine contribution to the industry you make. I hope you can read and comprehend a manual better than a blog.