Hopefully you are being funny in your statement. Delta should only keep people from both airlines who are focused on besting other airlines in all categories. If you don't want to be the best, I think you should take a hike. Go to an airline which could care less about being the best or get out of the industry altogether. If all you can think about is how sorry the senior leadership is, please go. If you don't, we will eventually see you as you are and get rid of you. It is up to you.That's some report.
I see NW pretty much beats Delta in on time, denied boarding, mis handled luggage, and customer complaints. (which isn't saying much since they both continued to decline)
Wonder if it's because NW are union and perform better?
Just something to think about.
The new Northwest...named "Delta"
- Thread starter North by Northwest
- Start date
What the heck does this response have to do with my original post?
It's obvious from the article that Delta and NW are both in a race to the bottom!
Did you even look at the stats? Do you really think anything is going to change when/if there is a merger?
2003 NW ranked 6 Delta ranked 12 NW -1.02 Delta -1.24
2004 NW ranked 7 Delta ranked 12 NW -1.24 Delta -1.54
2005 NW ranked 7 Delta ranked 12 NW -1.46 Delta -2.14
2006 NW ranked 5 Delta ranked 12 NW -1.35 Delta -2.17
2007 NW ranked 4 Delta ranked 10 NW -1.59 Delta -2.72
What do you mean by "besting other airlines in all categories"? What the heck, aren't you suppose to be doing that already? Well it ain't working.
I think you're onto something here about keeping the one's that care about being the best. It's ovbious from these stats that Delta can shet can most everyone and hand pick people off the street. Heck there are enough quality, experienced people layed off that could as you would say "focus on besting the other airlines."
Except for the Pilots, they're union.
Kev3188
Veteran
The leadership of this albatross is sorry; you'll just have to take the blinders off to see it for yourself. As for any of us "taking a hike," you're in for a serious disappointment. We're here, we're going to call the leadership out on their faults when required, and that's how it goes. It's called caring about your company. Get used to it.
Who do you think you are? Get rid of us? That's adorable.
You have *zero* say in wether or not any of us stay or go.
southwind
Veteran
As do you have *ZERO* say whether you are able to keep a job...........union or no union !
OP
- Thread Starter
- #65
Actually, we do at Unions...as in the Delta pilot union and the Delta non union FA "water drinking firing". I'm sure you remember that one, where that poor girl was falsely accused of failing a drug test.
Kev3188
Veteran
Sure I do; it's called a grievance procedure.
Having said that, what would NW or DL kick me to the curb for?
Work performance? Nope, I do a good job everyday (you're just going to have to trust me on that).
Attendance? Sorry, mine's excellent (yes, really).
Being pro-union? Well, they can try, but that's illegal, and would set up an "early retirement" for me and my family.
Calling the leadership out on their faults. Nope, still covered by free speech. On top of that, we'll all be shareholders soon enough; that definitely gives me (us) a say. If the leadership can't take the heat, they need to get out of the kitchen.
Posting my thoughts on this forum and others? Negative. Still within company policies, and more importantly, all done off the property.
Keep trying....
By the way, when are you going to answer my questions in post #43?
Surely I haven't stymied an intellectual tour de force such as you?
I eagerly await being dazzled by your response...
I have a question: Would those of you who predict that the new Delta under this supposedly employee hostile management team, will inflict nothing but hardship and pain on the rank and file, admit they are wrong if after some period of time thier work lives improve? Just curious and the question is not meant to be provocative. A certain amount of healthy criticism is a good thing and I am cautiously optimistic. I do not trust management either, however I am just not as negative against this new management team as some because I do not see it being to their advantage to cause problems with labor. They want this merger to work because thier careers are riding on it. They do not want a debacle like Doug Parker has created over at LCC. I predict that the new DAL will be a strong force in the global airline market and that management will be willing to work with us and not try to cut our pay and benefits. The reasons for this optimism is that it will be in their best interest not because they are good guys. Now if I am wrong I will be the first to admit it. Just wanted to see what others thought.
P.S. I am not a anti union coolaid driniker.
P.S. I am not a anti union coolaid driniker.
Is it just me Kev or do you feel that Delta employees are so complacent, they don't even know how to debate a response?
The stats supplied are horrible yet they feel everything is hunky dori!
They won't cut it in the "new" world of aviation as a global airline.
If Delta employees don't shape up, they will be shipped out....
h34r:
Kev3188
Veteran
I would be very happily suprised if that came to pass....
Not like ours are... There's always another company to raid. Barring that, with the packages they have, they're set for life.
I predict you're dead wrong, but hope that you're right. if they're as set on that as you think, then the first order of business is to adopt the DL pay scale, and the NW benefits (scope,medical, vacation, sick time, etc.). Outside of the hourly wage, everything else at the Widget will be a step backward for me...
The only thing that's in their "best interests" is shareholder returns. In their eyes, labor is just an obstacle on the way to that goal.
Kev3188
Veteran
Is it just me Kev or do you feel that Delta employees are so complacent, they don't even know how to debate a response?
The stats supplied are horrible yet they feel everything is hunky dori!
They won't cut it in the "new" world of aviation as a global airline.
If Delta employees don't shape up, they will be shipped out....
Whistling past the graveyard comes to mind....
I must say a small fraction of the DL employees I either know or have "met" on here and other forums bring good points to the table. This holds true even when their position may be diametrically opposed to what I think.
That sort of debate/exchange of ideas is fun, and is frankly essential if this thing is going to work.
However, most are so blinded by the fodder spoon fed to them, that they will believe anything Mother Delta tells them to. After awhile, critical thinking gets chucked out the window.... The propaganda machine at DL knows no bounds...
It's disappointing when posters like Southwind and GSEMan trot out the same elementary attacks; it's like debating a 3 year old.... Just once I'd like to see them say/type something that makes me think. My (our) questions are simple enough to answer; you'd think that some one would have more of a rebuttal than the pedestrian crap we get tossed our way.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #71
Hi Coop,
My position is a direct result of the time they spent on the Northwest property. We have seen THEM over and over and over again answer to no one except their pay packages, bonuses, pensions, and the controlling thieves like HEDGE FUNDS (it was called LBO's back in the late 80's). Delta and NWA have been taken over by an LBO/HEDGE FUND by proxy.
I think it is great that you have a hopeful out look. I do too, except mine is Roman, "trust, and VERIFY!"
To ignore their past tenure at NW when employees acted honestly, and trustingly is to set yourself up for danger. These are highly experienced sharks. You will need more than just a Union with these guys, you will need to keep a lawyer on retainer shall they ever try to place their boot on your neck.
Fool me once, ok. Fool me twice, dummy. Fool me three times...mentally ill.
RD, sorry but I must have hit the wrong reply button, that is why it didn't make any sense to you. I don't spend enough time at my computer to figure out how this chat stuff works. I never once said we are the best according to statistics and that is embarrassing, but I want to be the best and bringing the best from NW and keeping only the best at DL would I hope equate to the best.What the heck does this response have to do with my original post?
It's obvious from the article that Delta and NW are both in a race to the bottom!
Did you even look at the stats? Do you really think anything is going to change when/if there is a merger?
2003 NW ranked 6 Delta ranked 12 NW -1.02 Delta -1.24
2004 NW ranked 7 Delta ranked 12 NW -1.24 Delta -1.54
2005 NW ranked 7 Delta ranked 12 NW -1.46 Delta -2.14
2006 NW ranked 5 Delta ranked 12 NW -1.35 Delta -2.17
2007 NW ranked 4 Delta ranked 10 NW -1.59 Delta -2.72
What do you mean by "besting other airlines in all categories"? What the heck, aren't you suppose to be doing that already? Well it ain't working.
I think you're onto something here about keeping the one's that care about being the best. It's ovbious from these stats that Delta can shet can most everyone and hand pick people off the street. Heck there are enough quality, experienced people layed off that could as you would say "focus on besting the other airlines."
Except for the Pilots, they're union.
What are we debating about? I get paid very well for what I do (possibly more than you do depending on your career choice). I get 5 weeks of vacation every year. Flight benefits for me and the fam. Out of over $50,000.00 worth of medical bills last winter, I paid maybe $2000.00. I was allowed to come back light duty and never once was I asked to do more than I could before I was ready (I did anyway). Seeing what happened to your mechanics why the heck would I want to be union for? Geez! Your own company employees didn't even back them up. Did you go to work every day during the time they were on strike? So tell me, what should I debate you on?
I hardly believe a word our senior mangement tells us. I know they are over paid. I know they could be considered thieves. I can't do a thing about that. What are you going to do about it? Stand outside their offices and yell up to their windows? Go on strike? In today's corporate environment, we are no better off being union. I don't like the politics of the corporate world, why would I want to put up with the politics of the unions?
I said all that to say...there is no debate in my mind. I have my own conclusion. You haven't even given Delta a chance. You are against this merger before it has even had a chance to succeed (talk about 3 year old mentality). It is going to happen and you my friend have to make the choice to either go with it or get out of the game. I have made up my mind what I intend to do. I will try to help Delta succeed.
Oh and Kev, while I was in the hospital dying, a UHC nurse followed my care every step of the way calling my wife and I to make sure our needs were cared for. She contacted the doctors and hospital and told them to give me the best of care. Does your union backed health care have that? DEBATE THAT!!
tech2101
Veteran
Why don't you just answer the questions he asked?
You continue to prove yourself unable to hold an intelligent discussion.
(Deleted by Moderator. Namecalling.)
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