TWU Chapter 11 - AA 1113 Filing

I have no idea why you are claiming that your movement to position of Organizing Chairman was related to you talking with Dell and/or Lee. Just another example of your "Big I" syndrome. The way I remember it we were beginning a resign drive once again and because some potential signers were hesitiant becuase I was not an A&P but instead a welder, we agreed to put a new face on the drive to overcome that obstacle. I was still right there as Co-Chair and hardly sit on my ass.

We certainly remember things differently I remember Gary S sending out a e-mail saying it was time to get the drive started again after the concessions and no one but me evening responding to it, he has told this story dozens of times because my response was that I agreed but no one wanted to lead it, he suggested I lead it to which I responded I was the wrong guy because I rub some people the wrong way we had the same conversation many times still you ask me to take the postion, now you suggest that I have a overblown ego and took all the credit yet you know I did not want the job to begin with, as for Dell & Lee goes I said after I took the job they started dealing me instead of you and that is when I began to hear about you not getting credit for your work, I also never accused you of sitting on your ass during the AMFA drive.


We both have big egos without a doubt, but I am also capable of being humble and admitting error in judgement once the facts are laid out clearly in front of me. Some seem to be unable to express any humility regardless of time proving that a mistake or misjudgement took place.

The point is that freely giving another concession was simply kicking the can down the road, sure we would have got 16,000 dollars but it would not force the change that was clearly coming and I was not going to be party to more concessions to maintain the status quo I am 47 years old if I going to start over better to do it now than 5 years from now. No matter what you say I cast my vote with my best interrest in mind and do not vew it as a mistake you feel differently fine but that does not make you right.
 
As for the majority being wrong. All we would have to do is have revote on the same T/A now, remembering that the trump card was always there and you others were calling that trump a bluff, and the voting outcome on the same T/A would be a complete reversal. In other words, the majority you speak of is telling me daily they wish they could revote on the exact same T/A and they would vote Yes. That bolsters my opinion that I was correct, and therefore continue to express that opinion here on a regualr basis. Maybe where you work employees are still pounding their chest about how we showed their asses, but most no voters where I work and humble enough to admit they were wrong and on a daily basis express a desire to have another shot at the T/A.

What is intersting about this is Jim Little could make almost same argument about his Without Further Ratification move in 2003. so now I guess you think he was justified back then, hell it looks like I owe Dan a apology!
 
My position was, is and has been all along, proven by my postings throughout this board that with our current representation we would not get a better contract and voting NO would lead to a worse result. Go back and read through postings and you will find this to be fact, and in fact that is where we are today.

You can go apologize to whoever you want. That will not change a damn thing or reverse that truth.

Give up arguing with those who think a yes vote would have changed things your not going to change their minds I have seen almost all of them post how much it has cost them personlly which tells you all you need to know

You slam the Yes voters for posting about much the No Vote cost them. Which is nothing more than looking out for their interest.

Then turn right around admit/state

The point is that freely giving another concession was simply kicking the can down the road, sure we would have got 16,000 dollars but it would not force the change that was clearly coming and I was not going to be party to more concessions to maintain the status quo I am 47 years old if I going to start over better to do it now than 5 years from now. No matter what you say I cast my vote with my best interrest in mind and do not vew it as a mistake you feel differently fine but that does not make you right.


Well I voted YES with my best interest in mind. And you don't seem to have problem with others starting over since the majority is older than you are, does that make you self serving as you accuse others of being? Do you relaize how many are going to lose their jobs now and start over? Do you even care about that at all? I could still use that $16,000 lost right now, and it gets worse. Those involved in the CFM-56 outsource greivance are now being told that to collect on remedy due, we have to file a proof of claim in the Bankruptcy court and we will likely never see a dime. Go ahead and add in that dollar amount to the continuous rising amount and destruction the no voters have cost my best interest.

Doesn't make a damn if the concession is freely given or taken, the end result is the same. That has been my point all along this long tireless arguement. We have only now kicked a can of lesser value down the road because the concessions are now going to be much worse because we have to pay for lawyers, advisors, ect. and the business plan has to compete with upcoming competive offers. Much Worse NOW, not equal or better.

You ond others take pride in the idea that at least you didnt volunteer concessions but in reality you have made the concessions must worse.

Your holier than thou slam on people voting what is best for them while admitting you do that yourself is hyprocrisy as defined, whild you name others as hypocrits.

You can continue to dig yourself deeper into the hole by revealing your true intentions, while hiding under a cloak to amke us believe otherwise, but it will never change the fact that you and others were and still are apparently leading us into a batlle without any weapons or tools to defend ourselves. We don't even have the tools to defend our current position and you and the likes of Bob think we should attempt and advance and all assault on the superior enemy.

FOOLISH!!!!
 
The horse is DEAD stop beating it !! Even the Strike Auth on ballot couldn't save that POS !
 
so when you cast a vote you look at the ballot and say this is for the greater good of everyone? your position and your personal views and needs dont figure into your reason for casting a ballot? why do we vote than? dont we have people to negotiate for us so we have a final say weather we like what they brought back or not? very noble of you. one minute you trash the TWU yet you like what they brought back? oh thats right 2-1 did not vote your way. im checking you tube now for that vote yes video.... oh what not there but you did have the opportunity to make one? gotta love America the home of free choice. even if you choose to whine and cry. nice to see your back with all the hate and venom you can muster! talk about personal attacks geez you seem to be the most vicious of them on the board!
 
so when you cast a vote you look at the ballot and say this is for the greater good of everyone? your position and your personal views and needs dont figure into your reason for casting a ballot? why do we vote than? dont we have people to negotiate for us so we have a final say weather we like what they brought back or not? very noble of you. one minute you trash the TWU yet you like what they brought back? oh thats right 2-1 did not vote your way. im checking you tube now for that vote yes video.... oh what not there but you did have the opportunity to make one? gotta love America the home of free choice. even if you choose to whine and cry. nice to see your back with all the hate and venom you can muster! talk about personal attacks geez you seem to be the most vicious of them on the board!


Truth hurts and is not hate.

If you are too friggin ignorant to grasp the idea that I did not like what was brought back, but knew with the TWU and our current state as "union men" that we would not and could not get anything better., then stay the hell out of the debate before you get your feelings hurt too.

I didn't like the T/A any better than the next guy, but since I went through and watched the TWU negotiate in 1985, 1989, 1995, 2001, 2003 along with what has happened to every other AMT group trying to take a stand, I had no doubt that voting no would lead to a much worse deal for everyone. Is that so complicated you cannot grasp it? Is seems fairly basic to me. Are you an AMT reading manual references to do your job?

It is easy to be the elected leader telling everyone what they want to hear while leading them straight off of a cliff in an organization with no accountability.
The hardest part is telling knuckleheads the truth instead of what they want to hear.

What you have is some leadership pretending as if we have enough clout and power to overcome odds that are so stacked against us that most intelligent locigal thinkers would not even provoke the enemy. But instead we are stuck with emotional stooges leading everyone into a battle that was over before it even began. If you think the T/A was bad, just wait until you see what you are going to get now. That is what this debate is about, what we were offered compared to waht we are going to get now. At least I thought that was the issue.
 
The horse is DEAD stop beating it !! Even the Strike Auth on ballot couldn't save that POS !


The Horse is not dead, he is coming back at you soon in a much worse condition.
That is the whole point! If need be, I will put together a complete line by line comparison to what you were offered compared to what you are about to get.
That should clear my point up for even the mentally challenged reader regardless of his/her emotions.
 
The Horse is not dead, he is coming back at you soon in a much worse condition.
That is the whole point! If need be, I will put together a complete line by line comparison to what you were offered compared to what you are about to get.
That should clear my point up for even the mentally challenged reader regardless of his/her emotions.

And for the last time even if you had taken the T/A you cannot say anything but the 16,000 would be dam bit different today now go ahead and have the final say beause I am tired of watching the dog chase his tale!
 
The Horse is not dead, he is coming back at you soon in a much worse condition.
That is the whole point! If need be, I will put together a complete line by line comparison to what you were offered compared to what you are about to get.
That should clear my point up for even the mentally challenged reader regardless of his/her emotions.
So those who disagree with your obvious slanted view towards the soundly defeated T/A are now considered "mentally challenged"? No wonder you weren't in charge of the drive as aapitbull pointed out with that how to win friends approach. Have you told everyone that your feelings towards the T/A had a lot to do with the fact that you were part of a very small and select minority group who got an additional raise that gave welders the same premium pay as an A&P mechanic? So your feelings on card drives or contracts are based on what you and only you could gain from it?

I know that between having little seniority and being stuck on the rock, I am screwed but I voted no because of the language that would of killed jobs and my retiree medical, not the because of the money. No shortage of overtime if you are short on money.
 
I know that between having little seniority and being stuck on the rock, I am screwed but I voted no because of the language that would of killed jobs and my retiree medical, not the because of the money. No shortage of overtime if you are short on money.
I'm sure no jobs will be lost now! And you've surely saved those benefits... :-/
 
The Horse is not dead, he is coming back at you soon in a much worse condition.
That is the whole point! If need be, I will put together a complete line by line comparison to what you were offered compared to what you are about to get.
That should clear my point up for even the mentally challenged reader regardless of his/her emotions.
GET IN THE FOXHOLE !!! We will fight the war for you !
 
GET IN THE FOXHOLE !!! We will fight the war for you !


Who is "we" James C Little, Sharon Levine, Gary Drummin, and who?

You still cannot grasp that the "war" was over before it even began.

OK, I am stupid and gullible enough and you have my attention, now tell me what "we" are going to do now?

I can tell you what "we" are going to do, we are going eat a much worse deal than what you voted no on.

Think otherwise?
I am open to your education on how this process works, start from the beginning and leave nothing out.

Dont just post another one-liner, give me the specifics.
Is it easy for you falsely claim you are fighting a war that doesn't exist?
Does telling lies like that come natural to you?

We are now all in Foxhole, don't you get it?
 
Who is "we" James C Little, Sharon Levine, Gary Drummin, and who?

You still cannot grasp that the "war" was over before it even began.

OK, I am stupid and gullible enough and you have my attention, now tell me what "we" are going to do now?

I can tell you what "we" are going to do, we are going eat a much worse deal than what you voted no on.

Think otherwise?
I am open to your education on how this process works, start from the beginning and leave nothing out.

Dont just post another one-liner, give me the specifics.
Is it easy for you falsely claim you are fighting a war that doesn't exist?
Does telling lies like that come natural to you?

We are now all in Foxhole, don't you get it?
WE didn't volutarily bring ourselves down any lower than we already are ! WE ARE THE LOWEST OF THE LOW .This should have happended 8yrs ago.Guess what no more B/K threat,no more paying to store a/c in desert that will never make a dime for AA.No more paying Managment bonus with money out of the employees pockets that make this Airline run!!