Twu Raiding Pfaa

[AMFAMAN]

http://www.pfaawatch.com/

http://www.twuatd.org/organize/NWACampaignAnnoucement.htm

Now this is funny...The twu of all unions raiding the PFAA. Be advised NWA F/A's, don't even think about it, just ask AA's F/A's who dumped them or any AA AMT outside of Tulsa. They suck more then the Teamsters.

 

[AMFAMAN]

This is really funny, what a bunch of outright lies.

http://www.pfaawatch.com/faq-9.htm

 

[Hackman]

Out of any union the NWA flight attendants could choose, the twu is the worst. It took the twu over two years and Herb coming out of retirement to get a contract at SWA, and it still isn't anything I'd call good. (I.E. the SWA FA's still clean planes for free)

I wonder if the twu International felon Kirky Wells is doing the organizing? Now that would be worth a ticket to see. :blink:

 

[PRINCESS KIDAGAKASH]

It's better to be non-union then be "represented" by the TWU. Why would any sane individual join the TWU? :blink:

 

[Wings]

It's better to be non-union then be "represented" by the TWU. Why would any sane individual join the TWU? :blink:

[post="310593"][/post]​

Princess:

Could you give me precise reasons why you are unhappy with TWU representation?

We need concrete facts regarding TWU before the ballots are sent out ....

Thanks for any additional information you can provide!

 

[TWU informer]

Princess:

Could you give me precise reasons why you are unhappy with TWU representation?

We need concrete facts regarding TWU before the ballots are sent out ....

Thanks for any additional information you can provide!

[post="310597"][/post]​

I will provide plenty of specific facts if there is ever an election.

But I am not going to throw all of my valued information out on the table this early in the game.

There is along way to go before any ballots are going out, but rest assured, there is more evidence available than anyone could handle why not to go TWU.

Seems many TWU supporters called us "Raiders", "Disrupting Negotiations", "Unbecoming Union Members", and many other labels when their own mechanics sought to replace the TWU with AMFA at AA.

Now of course, those labels do not apply.

Number one reason not to go AMFA, your international union will be dominated by bus drivers, bus cleaners, and subway workers, your voice in the affairs of the union will be nill. Your leadership will be appointed not elected, and the whole organization was founded by Red Mike Quill, a Communist.

Link to the book In Transit the History of the TWU

The Book In Transit

While waiting for detailed corruption documents at a later date, please read the above book.

Also, ask the International TWU for copies of the transcripts of the 1989, 1993, 1997, and 2001 TWU International Conventions. The Conventions have court reporters there and eveything that takes place on the convention floor is recorded and printed.

Pay particular attention to the 1997 Convention Proceedings.

My guess is, your request for these documents will go unanswered as long as there is an organizing drive at NWA. Maybe even beyond that!

Anyways, read the above documents for now, and prepare for further documented proof that the TWU is not the union of choice for the Flight Attendants at Northwest Airlines, or any other airline for that matter.

One thing that you should note from the book In Transit, even the first TWU International President was NOT the elected choice of the membership. A man by the name of O'Shea actually won the election, but Red Mike Quill was appointed instead.

Appointed leadership has been the way of the TWU since the beginning and nothing has changed.

Of course if you do not mind leadership appointments, and the fact that your voice will never be heard on who leads your union, then by all means get you a TWU button and go for it.

Do not say we did not warn you though.

PS.. contact Labor Attorney's in Roanoke Texas by the name of Pat Gibbs and Susan French. They were both leaders of the Flight Attendant movement to leave the TWU in 1974, and they can also provide many details about why those Flight Attendants at American Airlines left the TWU and never returned.

 

[Hackman]

Princess:

Could you give me precise reasons why you are unhappy with TWU representation?

We need concrete facts regarding TWU before the ballots are sent out ....

Thanks for any additional information you can provide!

[post="310597"][/post]​

The first and foremost reason not to ever get the twu is the unelected and unaccountable twu International, once officers are in the international, they are in for life. The membership cannot remove any of them...ever. For instance Jim Little was in AA management, and should not be a twu International Vice President, but he is, and will be for life.

The second big reason is the twu International owns our contract at AA. They make changes without a vote from the twu membership. They have hundreds of secret side letters of agreement with management. This is how the infamous saying of "They can do that Brother" came about.

Here is a short list of pre-2003 concessions the twu agreed to in every contract since 1983 :

1. Introduced the "B-scale" to the airline industry, which for employees hired after February 11, 1983, extended the length of time required to reach top pay from 2.5 years to 12.5 years, and reduce starting pay from $13.05hr to 10.00hr.

2. Reduced maximum vacation accrual from 6 weeks to 4 weeks.

3. Removed "lump sum" option on pension benefits.

4. Extended the probation period from 3 months to 6 months.

5. Introduced "Flex Beneifits" in 1990, creating out-of-pocket contibutions for health insurance coverage.

6. Failed to negotiate COLA in any contract.

7. Introduced "Pre-funding" for retirement health beneifits, requiring employee contributions.

8. "Skill Premiums" that are not included in the computation of overtime pay.

9. Elimimation of company provided Long Term Disability insurance in favor of a very expensive, out-of-pocket, union sponsored plan.

10. Negotiated away paid lunch periods. (We work a 8.5 hour day)

11. Allowed "push back" and de-icing functions to be transfered to Fleet Service.

12. Failed to negotiate increases in Dental Plan annual maximum to compensate for inflation.

13. Allowed entry level pay to be reduced by 45% by creating the new job classification "Shop Repair Person" (SRP) which is now changed to Overhaul Support Mechanic (OSM).

14. Eliminated the Blast Machine operator by combining the blasting functions with those performed by parts washers.

15. Allowed extensive outsourcing of protected work through side letters of agreement with the company.

16. Extended the Junior Mechanic program from 1 to 4 years, and restricted "credited experience" requirments. (The program is now eliminated)

17. Allowed the company to stop paying full pay for unused sick days at retirement, paying instead one hour's pay for each unused sick day.

18. Allowed the company to stop paying 3 hours pay at end of each year for each sick day not used.

19. Allowed the company to eliminate the Supplemental Variable Annuities Program, in which the company matched employee contributions.

I won't list the worst concessions in airline history that we suffered at AA in 2003, it will suffice it to say that AA management got everything they wanted with assistance of a fear campain by the twu. Capped off the the twu's Jim Little stating; "We were heading right for Chapter 7 Liquidation", the ultimate lie of all time.

Whatever you do Wings, as a 17 year twu mis-represented member I implore you, DO NOT VOTE twu if a vote comes for the NWA FA's. You will regret it for the rest of your career.

Concessions begat concessions......and just this week AA management is talking of of more concessions. As we knew would happen again. :down: :angry: :down: :angry:

 

[Bob Owens]

Princess:

Could you give me precise reasons why you are unhappy with TWU representation?

We need concrete facts regarding TWU before the ballots are sent out ....

Thanks for any additional information you can provide!

[post="310597"][/post]​

Why not just ask Delta and Continental workers why they rejected the TWU?

The TWU is a company union.

At AA the company pays TWU officials $3.1 million a year to guarantee that AA gets whatever it wants.

The TWU is undemocratic. Members can not vote for International officers and the International had complete authority over all Locals and contracts.

The TWU is corrupt. They are always being sued by their own members and they pay out hundreds of thousands of dollars in order to settle lawsuits out of court.

The TWU will do nothing for you except take your money.

 

[Wings]

I will provide plenty of specific facts if there is ever an election.

But I am not going to throw all of my valued information out on the table this early in the game.

There is along way to go before any ballots are going out, but rest assured, there is more evidence available than anyone could handle why not to go TWU.

Seems many TWU supporters called us "Raiders", "Disrupting Negotiations", "Unbecoming Union Members", and many other labels when their own mechanics sought to replace the TWU with AMFA at AA.

Now of course, those labels do not apply.

Number one reason not to go AMFA, your international union will be dominated by bus drivers, bus cleaners, and subway workers, your voice in the affairs of the union will be nill. Your leadership will be appointed not elected, and the whole organization was founded by Red Mike Quill, a Communist.

Link to the book In Transit the History of the TWU

The Book In Transit

While waiting for detailed corruption documents at a later date, please read the above book.

Also, ask the International TWU for copies of the transcripts of the 1989, 1993, 1997, and 2001 TWU International Conventions. The Conventions have court reporters there and eveything that takes place on the convention floor is recorded and printed.

Pay particular attention to the 1997 Convention Proceedings.

My guess is, your request for these documents will go unanswered as long as there is an organizing drive at NWA. Maybe even beyond that!

Anyways, read the above documents for now, and prepare for further documented proof that the TWU is not the union of choice for the Flight Attendants at Northwest Airlines, or any other airline for that matter.

One thing that you should note from the book In Transit, even the first TWU International President was NOT the elected choice of the membership. A man by the name of O'Shea actually won the election, but Red Mike Quill was appointed instead.

Appointed leadership has been the way of the TWU since the beginning and nothing has changed.

Of course if you do not mind leadership appointments, and the fact that your voice will never be heard on who leads your union, then by all means get you a TWU button and go for it.

Do not say we did not warn you though.

PS.. contact Labor Attorney's in Roanoke Texas by the name of Pat Gibbs and Susan French. They were both leaders of the Flight Attendant movement to leave the TWU in 1974, and they can also provide many details about why those Flight Attendants at American Airlines left the TWU and never returned.

[post="310612"][/post]​

TWU Informer:

Thank you for the information ....

This election will take place very soon. The NMB can call for an election whenever one of the unions (AFA or TWU) gets 50% +1 of the FA membership to sign cards. And it doesn't matter who reaches that mark FIRST. Either way, both unions will be on the ballot with PFAA. AFA announced their campaign on September 14 - the day NWA filed for bankruptcy.

Since that date, cards have been flying into AFA's office in Washington D.C. Last week, the TWU announced their campaign - a drive organized by former Teamster supporters (and old Local 2000 officers and reps) who feel the TWU organization would be better for our group since it mirrors the IBT's. Funny thing is, TWU's Jim Little states in his letter to NWA FAs that the TWU has been considering this move since July. Where were they before NWA filed for bankruptcy? And why did they wait until another AFL-CIO union (AFA) announced their campaign?

The FAs at NWA have little choice but to look for new union representation. PFAA lost their bid to sit on the bankruptcy committee last week (ALPA and IAM were granted seats). We are facing massive furloughs and PFAA has little money now. Once the furloughs start even less dues money will be coming in. Add the outsourcing issue on domestic flights with foreign nationals and we have a huge mess on our hands.

Part of the reason we went independent in the first place with PFAA was because the IBT and AFA were AFL-CIO affiliated. AFA could not hold a representational election while the IBT was representing us. Going independent for two years was our only option at that time. Go forward two years (since the PFAA election) and look at the mess our entire industry is in. And leave it to NWA to attempt to do to their workgroups what no other U.S. carrier has ever attempted to do. They want to outsource every job classification! PFAA does not have the experience, money, bankruptcy attorneys, or lobbying power to fight NWA's plans at this point in time. If the NWA FAs don't want to lose everything, we have to vote in another union ....

Many FAs feel that AFA would be the smarter move since they have bankruptcy experience at five carriers, have been granted a seat on all five bankruptcy committees, and have the clout in Washington D.C. to fight the outsourcing issue.

The TWU is the unknown entity here. PLEASE KEEP THE POSTS COMING - we need all the information about TWU as we can get our hands on.

From what you and others at AA have posted so far, I feel TWU would be a huge mistake. It is now just a matter of convincing the majority of FAs that TWU will not be able to represent us effectively. With the kind of information AA employees can provide in posts such as this, hopefully our group will make the right decision!

 

[FA Mikey]

Listen to the UAL people who trying to dump AFA. being on a credit committee is not as important as protecting your CBA. Has being on any BK committee done anything for the UAL, or U. FA's. Have they taken a smaller cut?

If the PFAA is short cash then you need to raise dues now to protect yourselves, Rather than looking to hire someone else who you think will save you. Has AFA saved UAL or U FA's?

Leave AFA continue to continue to monitor Hollywood movies for positive role model FA's. Keep the PFAA to protect your CBA.

Outsourcing will occur unchecked until there is a new power in DC. So long as the GOP is the majority. You will have little help there. Don't expect AFA who was just acquired by CWA to foot the whole bill. They will be looking to you for the money.

 

[Bob Owens]

Listen to the UAL people who trying to dump AFA. being on a credit committee is not as important as protecting your CBA. Has being on any BK committee done anything for the UAL, or U. FA's. Have they taken a smaller cut?

If the PFAA is short cash then you need to raise dues now to protect yourselves, Rather than looking to hire someone else who you think will save you. Has AFA saved UAL or U FA's?  

Leave AFA continue to continue to monitor Hollywood movies for positive role model FA's. Keep the PFAA to protect your CBA.

Outsourcing will occur unchecked until there is a new power in DC. So long as the GOP is the majority. You will have little help there. Don't expect AFA who was just acquired by CWA to foot the whole bill. They will be looking to you for the money.

[post="310691"][/post]​

Has the APFA saved you from taking massive cuts? And they gave it up outside of BK.

Is protecting your CBA gutting it?

Didnt you guys go straight to what totals out to be a 25% paycut like the other unions at AA? Arent your members quitting at the highest rate ever due to the terrible working conditions your union put in place, long duty cycles and short layovers?

All our concessions did was save management from being held accountable. It also kept the books secret.

I personally know one of your FAs who was so exhausted that he could not stay awake for the 20 minute ride home and wrecked his car. In fact we took bigger cuts than UAL and Usair did up until that point in time. Our concessions became the standard that bankrupt airlines went for.

If the APFA is doing so well then how come some members qualify for food stamps?

I'm not saying that the AFA is great but airline workers need to get their act together. You guys need to at least build strong alliances with each other. Being in one union makes such alliances easier to form and maintain but you dont have to give up your autonomy.

Personally I agree that they should probably stay with what they have. But if they are choosing between the TWU and AFA then the choice is clear-the AFA. But what really needs to happen is for the unions to do what the major airlines do, find common ground, set goals and work towards those goals.

 

[Checking it Out]

Just remember, so far the ones from AA whom have responded against the TWU are the same ones who support Amfa at NWA.

Ask the flight attendants at SWA about the TWU and the individuals who know how to maneuver and negotiate during the hard times. The TWU out maneuvered Amfa every step of the way during the last attempt at AA. And has successfully worked with AA to keep the majority of work in-house.

The Delegates you elect are also the ones you entrust to elect international offices with the TWU. You do have a say with the TWU!

I believe you will not go wrong with the TWU Representing your best interest. You will have True Local Autonomy and the International will be their when you need assistance!

You can't compare the TWU with the IBT. The structure is different.

 

[FA Mikey]

Has the APFA saved you from taking massive cuts? And they gave it up outside of BK.

Is protecting your CBA gutting it?

Didnt you guys go straight to what totals out to be a 25% paycut like the other unions at AA? Arent your members quitting at the highest rate ever due to the terrible working conditions your union put in place, long duty cycles and short layovers?

All our concessions did was save management from being held accountable. It also kept the books secret.

I personally know one of your FAs who was so exhausted that he could not stay awake for the 20 minute ride home and wrecked his car. In fact we took bigger cuts than UAL and Usair did up until that point in time. Our concessions became the standard that bankrupt airlines went for.

If the APFA is doing so well then how come some members qualify for food stamps?

I'm not saying that the AFA is great but airline workers need to get their act together. You guys need to at least build strong alliances with each other. Being in one union makes such alliances easier to form and maintain but you dont have to give up your autonomy.

Personally I agree that they should probably stay with what they have. But if they are choosing between the TWU and AFA then the choice is clear-the AFA. But what really needs to happen is for the unions to do what the major airlines do, find common ground, set goals and work towards those goals.

[post="310756"][/post]​

No, APFA was not spared from any cuts. But in reality has anyone been? Look at the balance sheets at U and UAL. First second or third to take cuts. It was going to happen. We took less and are not in BK.

The worst thing we had at APFA was a complete inept president. That has changed.


They will choose between TWU, AFA, or PFAA, if it comes to that. Nothing saying it will. Really they need to go you U and UAL and see how bad AFA really is. Look at DAL, they choose no union over AFA. Of 19,000 fa's only 5,500 voted for AFA. They spent so much money there they had to be rescued by CWA. This is not a union I would want to represent of have access to spend my dues dollars.

 

[Hackman]

Just remember, so far the ones from AA whom have responded against the TWU are the same ones who support Amfa at NWA.

Ask the flight attendants at SWA about the TWU and the individuals who know how to maneuver and negotiate during the hard times. The TWU out maneuvered Amfa every step of the way during the last attempt at AA. And has successfully worked with AA to keep the majority of work in-house.

The Delegates you elect are also the ones you entrust to elect international offices with the TWU. You do have a say with the TWU!

I believe you will not go wrong with the TWU Representing your best interest. You will have True Local Autonomy and the International will be their when you need assistance!

You can't compare the TWU with the IBT. The structure is different.

[post="310763"][/post]​

As a 17 year mis-represented twu member, I think I speak from experience cio. Your damn right I support AMFA at NWA. They are the only ones fighting for our careers, where as the twu company union bends over on command.

I have a friend that is a SWA FA with 16 years in the game. She thinks the twu is worthless also. Why did it take the twu two years and Herb coming out of retirement to get a FA contract at hugely successful SWA???

The twu out and out lied to the NMB with the companies help during the AMFA card drive. I'd call it "out manure", including dead people, terminated people,
management, and fleet service is nothing but pure BULLS***. Its the only way the twu could win, to not allow a vote.

You have NO SAY in the twu, and its been proven for years at AA. The Continental and Delta twu elections failed because the twu is the worst union you can have, and that's a proven fact.

The twu International officers are appointed by other twu cronies, the membership has never had any type of vote for any of them. FACT.

True local autonomy??? Is that how the twu International removed two duly elected officers Bob Owens and Chuck Schalk without the memberships consent??? Or how about at your own Tulsa Local 514, where the membership voted down building a new union hall twice but was overidden by the International so a new hall is being built anyway???

The twu International with be there.....when the company needs assistance for another major sellout. :angry:

 

[Bob Owens]

Just remember, so far the ones from AA whom have responded against the TWU are the same ones who support Amfa at NWA.

Do you mean Unionists instead of company supporters and scabs?

Ask the flight attendants at SWA about the TWU and the individuals who know how to maneuver and negotiate during the hard times.

SWA is still making profits and the head of the SWA Local was unhappy with the way the International was interfering.

The TWU out maneuvered Amfa every step of the way during the last attempt at AA.

So you admit that it was "maneuvering" and not the will of the membership that kept the TWU in place after 9700 of 12,000 mechanics filled out cards calling for an election. This is what NWA flight attendants can look forward to, a union that works with the company to screw over its members.

And has successfully worked with AA to keep the majority of work in-house.

By accepting the lowest pay rates and worst benifits.

The Delegates you elect are also the ones you entrust to elect international offices with the TWU. You do have a say with the TWU!

You have no say in the TWU. The votes at the Convention are done by voice vote where the Chair-usually the International President, decides who is louder and declares the vote that way. At the last Convention I went to in 2001 Sonny Hall told the Convention that he decides how the vote goesThe International tapes the Convention so they can look over and punish locals that dont vote the right way. Many Locals dont have elections for delegates, they just appoint them and the members have no way of finding out how their delegates vote since there is no record. The TWU specializes in small weak Locals that would never dare oppose what the International dictates. Only Local 100, with 36,000 members ever challenges them.

I believe you will not go wrong with the TWU Representing your best interest. You will have True Local Autonomy and the International will be their when you need assistance!

Local autonomy is a myth. The fact is the Local may be "on their own" but that does not mean that they are autonomus. I dont think CIO knows the difference. The International has been taken to court by Locals in the past citing this claim, which the International then denies and they cite the Constitution that gives them the right to revoke the charter of any Local they see fit to. The Locals are only autonomous as long as the International approves of what they are doing, in other words they are not autonomous.

So what the TWU does is make small Locals that are weak and underfunded. They are "on their own" as far as making ends meet, but if the International tells them to do something, they have no choice. One small example of this is the Quill scholarship fund. Locals are forced to contribute from Local funds to this International program.

Another example was the International decided to write out letters and demanded that Local Presidents sign these letters as if they wrote them. Chuck Schalk, President of Local 562 refused to sign the letter and the International removed him from office.

You can't compare the TWU with the IBT. The structure is different.

Thats right. In the IBT, which is 10 times bigger than the TWU, the members get to vote for International officers. Other than that both are Industrial unions.The IBT, despite its much larger size is much more Democratic than the TWU.
The structure of the TWU is designed for a singular purpose, to make those at the top untouchable.