WorldTraveler
Corn Field
- Dec 5, 2003
- 21,709
- 10,721
don't feel bad, WNMech.
DL's profit sharing for AMT's is grossly inaccurate.
DL employees are expected to get 20% plus of their salary in profit sharing this year.... given that they note that DL total cash compensation for a topped out mechanic is over $100K and DL itself says that the average seniority of its mechanics is double digit, profit sharing for mechanics more likely is in the 15-20% range this year.
Even with the pay increase - which is reflected in the rates - the profit sharing would have to drop to below single digits in order for their graph to be correct. nowhere has DL or any other carrier given any indications that their profits would fall that much in the next year.
Unions have consistently underestimated profit sharing and failed to acknowledge its value when it is delivered. ALL airline unions failed to recognize that consolidation would produce record profits and that is exactly what is happening - with the accompanying large profit sharing checks for airlines that provide it.
DL's profit sharing for AMT's is grossly inaccurate.
DL employees are expected to get 20% plus of their salary in profit sharing this year.... given that they note that DL total cash compensation for a topped out mechanic is over $100K and DL itself says that the average seniority of its mechanics is double digit, profit sharing for mechanics more likely is in the 15-20% range this year.
Even with the pay increase - which is reflected in the rates - the profit sharing would have to drop to below single digits in order for their graph to be correct. nowhere has DL or any other carrier given any indications that their profits would fall that much in the next year.
Unions have consistently underestimated profit sharing and failed to acknowledge its value when it is delivered. ALL airline unions failed to recognize that consolidation would produce record profits and that is exactly what is happening - with the accompanying large profit sharing checks for airlines that provide it.
Socplat13
Advanced
- Feb 26, 2013
- 101
- 42
Delta AMTs received 16.4% of their eligible earnings for profit sharing. That's way off. How much is the monthly premiums for the medical plans? It's one thing to have a small deductible, but the monthly premium will probably be very high.
Anyone hear anything about scope? Thanks.
Anyone hear anything about scope? Thanks.
I would not get too worked up by that chart and its inaccuracies. Just know that it is purposely put together by the company to make their proposal looks good and how "generous" they are. What you dont see is what they want to take in return. Which basically has been the whole theme of these negotiations.
The scal agreement was amendable December 31, 2012Socplat13 said:
The sual agreement was amendable June 30, 2013
Agreed. There is always something fishy when the co produced charts and graphs are fixed to make it look better than what it really is. The question is, where is, what they are hiding?767tech777 said:
You guys need a huge turn out (participation) and a really high 85% or better NO vote. Remember what the teamsters promised way back when when they just got into UAL? They promised every part of the JCBA will in fact be 100% industry leading (this is how they won the votes) now we will see if the teamsters can deliver...
swamt said:
Yes, i was not there for that, i am originally cal. But the Teamsters can not do it alone. They need our support with a strong no vote like you suggested. Hopefully the membership is insulted enough by this offer and takes action by all voting no.swamt said:
gtd
Advanced
- Dec 17, 2009
- 237
- 123
From the union:
Please read Bob Clever's email below as it really gives a good framework to what transpired. This is not a T/A in any sense it was a close out proposal and nothing more with no room to negotiate. I will try to provide as much information as is available, many items are unclear and we are hopeful the Airline Division can get something out soon so we can all shove this crap back for further refinement.
> 1) $80 Million dollar pool for signing bonus amongst 9000 members. (No retro) full retro was worth at least $134 million.
> 2) No longer will wide body aircraft of any type be overhauled in the US.
> 3) Maximum recall rights of 10 years this screws everyone left in Indianapolis.
> 4) Employees hired after ratification get only 6 fixed holidays and 3 floating holidays.
> 5) Employees hired after ratification have a different vacation accrual rate but I have no further detail.
> 6) Employees hired after ratification will only accrue 48 hours of sick pay per year.
> 7) Medical cost will be 80/20 increasing your out of pocket expense.
> 9) Retiree Medical gone effective 1/1/2026
> 10) Pension options will be decided by the sUA members during ratification: Turbo defined contribution of an additional $100 per month if you have 0-14 years, $200 if you have 15-24 years of service, and $300 if you have 25+ or more years of service. This money would then be contributed into your 401K. The other option would require a majority vote on behalf of the United members accepting the CARP retirement program with an effective start date of 1/1/2017.
> 11) Representation hours will be chopped down to a total of 80000 hours annually so we will be unable to maintain the current full time positions.
> 12) PROFIT SHARING pool at 5% of pre-tax earning up to the trigger of pre-tax margin of 6.9% and 10% over the trigger.
> 13) Early out $5000 per year of service up to $100000.
> Most of your raise is paid for by your own profit sharing and increased medical costs.
Please read Bob Clever's email below as it really gives a good framework to what transpired. This is not a T/A in any sense it was a close out proposal and nothing more with no room to negotiate. I will try to provide as much information as is available, many items are unclear and we are hopeful the Airline Division can get something out soon so we can all shove this crap back for further refinement.
> 1) $80 Million dollar pool for signing bonus amongst 9000 members. (No retro) full retro was worth at least $134 million.
> 2) No longer will wide body aircraft of any type be overhauled in the US.
> 3) Maximum recall rights of 10 years this screws everyone left in Indianapolis.
> 4) Employees hired after ratification get only 6 fixed holidays and 3 floating holidays.
> 5) Employees hired after ratification have a different vacation accrual rate but I have no further detail.
> 6) Employees hired after ratification will only accrue 48 hours of sick pay per year.
> 7) Medical cost will be 80/20 increasing your out of pocket expense.
> 9) Retiree Medical gone effective 1/1/2026
> 10) Pension options will be decided by the sUA members during ratification: Turbo defined contribution of an additional $100 per month if you have 0-14 years, $200 if you have 15-24 years of service, and $300 if you have 25+ or more years of service. This money would then be contributed into your 401K. The other option would require a majority vote on behalf of the United members accepting the CARP retirement program with an effective start date of 1/1/2017.
> 11) Representation hours will be chopped down to a total of 80000 hours annually so we will be unable to maintain the current full time positions.
> 12) PROFIT SHARING pool at 5% of pre-tax earning up to the trigger of pre-tax margin of 6.9% and 10% over the trigger.
> 13) Early out $5000 per year of service up to $100000.
> Most of your raise is paid for by your own profit sharing and increased medical costs.
gtd
Advanced
- Dec 17, 2009
- 237
- 123
More from a union official:
Members, We have just gotten back into town from a long contentious week of negotiations. When we landed we were pummeled with information regarding the Company announcing, including by loud speaker, that we have reached a Tentative Agreement. What we have before us is a closeout proposal from the Company that left no open door for further negotiations. A T/A leads one to believe that both parties agreed and that is not the case here. It is our responsibility at this point to educate the membership on every change that the Company seeks to bring before you and with a carrot of a DELTA matching wage. I will be working through the weekend building PowerPoint presentations and updating status charts to share with you. I am going to need some time to get the final documents when they are completed from the Chief Negotiators.
>
> Our next GMM is Friday October 30th @ 08:00. There will be detailed information on what transpired, how the committee came to a neutral recommendation and where we go from here. I do ask that you take confidence in that with the future meetings that will be scheduled, you will be well educated on the changes and be able to make an informed decision on how to vote on this proposal.
Members, We have just gotten back into town from a long contentious week of negotiations. When we landed we were pummeled with information regarding the Company announcing, including by loud speaker, that we have reached a Tentative Agreement. What we have before us is a closeout proposal from the Company that left no open door for further negotiations. A T/A leads one to believe that both parties agreed and that is not the case here. It is our responsibility at this point to educate the membership on every change that the Company seeks to bring before you and with a carrot of a DELTA matching wage. I will be working through the weekend building PowerPoint presentations and updating status charts to share with you. I am going to need some time to get the final documents when they are completed from the Chief Negotiators.
>
> Our next GMM is Friday October 30th @ 08:00. There will be detailed information on what transpired, how the committee came to a neutral recommendation and where we go from here. I do ask that you take confidence in that with the future meetings that will be scheduled, you will be well educated on the changes and be able to make an informed decision on how to vote on this proposal.
nope just they are ready whenever our association is ready.....he also commented that they are doing it right taking their time.....kinda like bu%%****Birdman said:
