United pilots

[givenup]

AWA320,

Like it or not USAPA is now YOUR union!! There will not be any "back door" deal done.

 

[AWA320]

AWA320,

Like it or not USAPA is now YOUR union!! There will not be any "back door" deal done.

No my friend usappy is THEIR union they have no west participation and are just about to feel the first of many law suits, hmmm I predict that said back breaking suit will come in ohhhh 10 days!!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

No my friend usappy is THEIR union they have no west participation and are just about to feel the first of many law suits, hmmm I predict that said back breaking suit will come in ohhhh 10 days!!

It'll be thrown out in, oh, 10 and 1/2 days. The West guys want to be SENIOR to United guys. They think that you'll just give it to them since they "deserve" it for saving you. Some former USAir guys lost over 16 years of seniority to them under ALPA for no reason other than they were able to convince a senile arbitrator that they had better "career expectations" than USAir guys, even though their own CEO disagreed and said that they had won "a lottery ticket" that they "cannot cash".

Now, they want UAL guys to embrace them and give them their lottery ticket back. Good luck!

There's a 4 letter word for folks that try to sabotage their own union. I'll leave it to you to read the statements here and decide whether it fits.

 

[ZMAN777]

Some former USAir guys lost over 16 years of seniority to them under ALPA for no reason other than they were able to convince a senile arbitrator that they had better "career expectations" than USAir guys, even though their own CEO disagreed and said that they had won "a lottery ticket" that they "cannot cash".

Now, they want UAL guys to embrace them and give them their lottery ticket back. Good luck!

There's a 4 letter word for folks that try to sabotage their own union. I'll leave it to you to read the statements here and decide whether it fits.

Since all this is on the UAL board I guess it's time for a few UAL pilots to weigh in on what our views are.

First off, I certainly don't claim to speak for any of the pilots here at UAL other than myself (although from many cockpit discussions I'd be willing to bet many/most would be in agreement). I'll let the others speak for themselves.

For one, Oldiebutgoody, I'd have to say that being on the street (i.e. your guys that were placed behind ACTIVE West pilots) is pretty much what I'd consider "ZERO" career expectations, unless of course you could convince the world that "waiting for someone to bail us out so I can get back to the line" is a career expectation. Come on, get real. It's a marker to lay down in negotiations to see what will gain traction.

Secondly, to imply that the West pilots who don't drink your Kool-Aid at USAPA about "nothing but DOH" are SCABS (and your reference to the "4 letter word" does just that) is not only ignorant of the facts of this case but totally unprofessional.

Now, I guess all this is taking place because our carrier is for some reason looking into a "possible" acquisition of yours. Fine, speculate all you want. Needless to say, that should that happen (heaven forbid!!) you'll once again find yourselves represented by ALPA. And we all know that ALPA bylaws mention NOTHING about DOH. You can stammer and fume all you want but it just won't make it so.

In the meantime chill out and enjoy what you have.

Cheers,
Z B)

 

[Pi brat]

Well I was there every step of the way so that means I may know just a little more than you!! No you were not offered all wide bodies for ever nor did you deserve that!! The company announced major wide body aircraft expansion AFTER YOU WERE PURCHASED not prior thus you never deserved them all. Second, and I know this part is very difficult for you guys but remember you had close to half of your entire pilot group furloughed at the time of the PURCHASE of usair!!!

Claiming that you were entitled to all wide body flying and attempting the leap a home depot employee ahead of NON FURLOUGHED PILOTS is evidence of your overwhelming greed!! It is there that pilots of UAL will see and remember the East pilot entitlement mentality...

Usappy is dead in the water my friend, you have ZERO west participation and thus kicking usappy butt will be a pleasure for all...

Hey scooter, I never said we should have all the widebodies for our entire careers. I was replying to the poster that said they no right to UA's widebodies and that every UA pilot should have that before a US pilot. Was that offered to US? If so enlighten me. Read what I said, I know that is hard for you guys.

I wasn't furloughed prior to the MERGER, never have been. They guys slotted in front of me never had an expectation of flying a widebody, but could step right into it now. Well, if Nic had been implemented. It's funny to me that you guys are sucking up to the UA guys, thinking they will save you. Just a guess, but from past experience they will look out for themselves, as they should.

IMHO, the east reps screwed up prior to thre arb, and your reps screwed up after the award came out. I really don't care what happens to USAPA.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Since all this is on the UAL board I guess it's time for a few UAL pilots to weigh in on what our views are.

First off, I certainly don't claim to speak for any of the pilots here at UAL other than myself (although from many cockpit discussions I'd be willing to bet many/most would be in agreement). I'll let the others speak for themselves.

For one, Oldiebutgoody, I'd have to say that being on the street (i.e. your guys that were placed behind ACTIVE West pilots) is pretty much what I'd consider "ZERO" career expectations, unless of course you could convince the world that "waiting for someone to bail us out so I can get back to the line" is a career expectation. Come on, get real. It's a marker to lay down in negotiations to see what will gain traction.

Secondly, to imply that the West pilots who don't drink your Kool-Aid at USAPA about "nothing but DOH" are SCABS (and your reference to the "4 letter word" does just that) is not only ignorant of the facts of this case but totally unprofessional.

Now, I guess all this is taking place because our carrier is for some reason looking into a "possible" acquisition of yours. Fine, speculate all you want. Needless to say, that should that happen (heaven forbid!!) you'll once again find yourselves represented by ALPA. And we all know that ALPA bylaws mention NOTHING about DOH. You can stammer and fume all you want but it just won't make it so.

In the meantime chill out and enjoy what you have.

Cheers,
Z B)

I see you don't know the facts, either. You really SHOULD educate yourself before it's too late. Guys who were NEVER furloughed lost 17 years of seniority in the deal. Guys who were furloughed after 14 years with the company return with NOTHING. How fair is that? And, you won't be protected by "ALPA MERGER POLICY", as if there was one, if this happens. I would wait and see just who acquires whom before you jump to any conclusions. My guess is that it will be investors, not either company, which puts this together, just like the LCC AWA merger.

Good luck to us all. Being screaming cry babies won't help at all.

 

[nostradamus]

"Think About The Capacity Perspective
LCC is beholden to a minimum fleet size of 322 mainline aircraft, about 20 fewer
than are currently in operation. LCC can of course reduce capacity further through
diminished utilization, but without the benefit of generating capital savings. But
United appears to have far greater flexibility (though not dependent on
consolidation). While United is beholden to a minimum number of mainline block
hours, it is predicated on an annual ex-item EBIT of 8.1%. For every 1% that
United's EBIT falls short during a calendar year (as opposed to rolling 12-month
basis), United can reduce the block hour floor by 1%. Importantly, there is non contractually-mandated increase to the minimum, should fuel suddenly collapse and
United's margins surge. The floor can only move down, in other words. Currently,
we estimate United could reduce its mainline capacity by as much as 15% under its
existing pilot contract."

Talks are of asset sales now, not merger. What pieces are being sold and by what company, tune in. The PHX base is a gem, let the bidding start now.



On AWA web site, they are foaming at the mouth. Merger with united only good for america west pilots

 

[hp_fa]

I would simply observe and opine that **all** the LCC folks bringing internal LCC stuff over here is tantamount to acting like the passengers they so like and respect. You know, Ma and Pa........

With that I am outta here....

 

[LOA93]

AWA320,

Like it or not USAPA is now YOUR union!! There will not be any "back door" deal done.

And "my" union gave me a 1.95% raise. Thanks fusapa!

 

[nostradamus]

I would simply observe and opine that **all** the LCC folks bringing internal LCC stuff over here is tantamount to acting like the passengers they so like and respect. You know, Ma and Pa........

With that I am outta here....

you are an america west flight attendant. america west pilots started this thread. 767jetz is on our board with third seat hero all the time. We are exchanging ideas and frankly, do not need an emotional women interfering.

 

[hulagirl]

Watch out UAL are WEST friends all already talking about how they are should have your 74s since they had them for a short time along with your 777s, there a greedy little bunch.

Now why would you say this? What a bunch of crap to start this kind of thing...

 

[nostradamus]

Now why would you say this? What a bunch of crap to start this kind of thing...

hulagirl
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Posted on: Aug 29 2005, 10:21 PM


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"I am an AWA flight attendant. And I respect seniority. Mine. AND YOURS. We are not all supporting "proportional integration" as proposed by some of our members. Do I like it that my seniority is going to take a nose-dive? No! But I am not entitled to seniority that I have not earned. Please dont think we are all supporting this motion."

Hula is trying to stick up for what is right, I commend her or him for it.

 

[UALDC767]

I see you don't know the facts, either. You really SHOULD educate yourself before it's too late. Guys who were NEVER furloughed lost 17 years of seniority in the deal. Guys who were furloughed after 14 years with the company return with NOTHING. How fair is that? And, you won't be protected by "ALPA MERGER POLICY", as if there was one, if this happens. I would wait and see just who acquires whom before you jump to any conclusions. My guess is that it will be investors, not either company, which puts this together, just like the LCC AWA merger.

Good luck to us all. Being screaming cry babies won't help at all.

Those guys who were never furloughed, and "lost" 17 years of seniority as you put it......

They were a junior FO on either the 737 or Airbus at the time of the merger. Correct? And after the Nicalou award....they were still junior FO's. Just like on the AWA side. A junior FO was still a junior FO. So what did the East FO's lose? Nothing.

The 14 year pilot on the street because he was furloughed? He lost nothing as well be because all he/she held was a hope that someday there might be a junior FO slot for him/her. No furloughed pilot should be placed above an active pilot. And its not like the recallee came back at 1st year pay/benefits (unless they were a new hire when furloughed). For the most part they are at top of scale for their junior FO position. How many of the furloughee/recallees would trade their position on the combined seniority list with "Save Dave" if it meant they got his year one paycheck as well?

DC

 

[Freighterguynow]

They were a junior FO on either the 737 or Airbus at the time of the merger. Correct? And after the Nicalou award....they were still junior FO's. Just like on the AWA side. A junior FO was still a junior FO. So what did the East FO's lose? Nothing.

Keep in mind 'save Dave' now has about 700 recalled East pilots below him. If the lists were merged on a ratio that puts about 1000 United pilots below the most junior 2005 America West pilot.

 

[Pi brat]

Those guys who were never furloughed, and "lost" 17 years of seniority as you put it......

They were a junior FO on either the 737 or Airbus at the time of the merger. Correct? And after the Nicalou award....they were still junior FO's. Just like on the AWA side. A junior FO was still a junior FO. So what did the East FO's lose? Nothing.



No sir, they are not still junior F/Os. Due to our attrition east F/Os have moved up rapidly, unlike their west counterparts who have stagnated. Many that were junior F/Os in 2005 are now captains, or line holder widebody F/Os. That is the problem with how the list was put together. Nic gave the east no credit for our attrition and put too much weight on the healthier airline concept. The guys slotted just in front of me had never been a captain or widebody F/O at AWA. They are still narrowbody F/Os on the west. If the Nic award were implemented tomorrow they would have several hundred 737 and A320 captains, A330 and 767 F/Os junior to them.

You guys need to read the Nic award, and take the seniority lists from 2005 and 2008 to really see the effect. Also read the CAL neutral opinion. He got it right, Nic just didn't listen.

The east F/Os have worked and waited for years to recover their positions. They are doing it now, in the east bases, and not on the west pilots backs as they claim.

John Prater, Doug Parker, Scott Kirby and many more told the west pilots that the Nic award was flawed and would not fly. They chose not to listen. That, and the east MECs actions prior to arbitration is why we are where we are today.

UA guys, your Mec chairman is right. This place is a toxic stew. Unless a merger with us is necessary to stay in business, you are much better off not getting involved.

Good luck to us all.