US Airways ALPA MEC Chairman’s Message

[EastUS]

There you go again with that IMAGINARY windfall mess. Tell us that after we see the added wait time to our upgrades. Jr is Jr hawk and that's where prior and that's where you belong after. None of us see this IMAGINARY windfall you keep claiming yet we all see the opposite and now add age 65 yeah I see the windfall now, not :wacko:

"Tell us that after we see the added wait time to our upgrades."

"our upgrades."

You're totally fine with whining about "OUR upgrades"

You've zero concern for hundreds with more time/experience/etc out east that would NEVER upgrade via this "award".

GET LOST :down:

 

[prechilill]

You've zero concern for hundreds with more time/experience/etc out east that would NEVER upgrade via this "award".

GET LOST :down:

Without America West entering their lives they would have had zero chance of upgrading anyway.
US Airways chairman warns of liquidation
Airline Industry Information, August 19, 2004
AIRLINE INDUSTRY INFORMATION-©1997-2004 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTD

The chairman of US Airways has warned employees that they must agree to a new USD800m wage and benefit cut within 30 days or the airline could be liquidated.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CW..._19/ai_n6159069

Remember these days my friend?

 

[EastUS]

Prechilled:

"Without America West entering their lives they would have had zero chance of upgrading anyway."
You know this for any actual FACT? I guess not..since the elimination of US didn't actually occur.

Even had such proved true: Once again...we have the "be greatful that we're only trying to steal X amount from you" BS.

There's just no way this is going to be settled decently.

 

[Bud8EE]

Prechilled:

"Without America West entering their lives they would have had zero chance of upgrading anyway."
You know this for any actual FACT? I guess not..since the elimination of US didn't actually occur.

Even had such proved true: Once again...we have the "be greatful that we're only trying to steal X amount from you" BS.

There's just no way this is going to be settled decently.

To here it from the lips of your CEO, America West pilots would have had zero chance to upgrade as well. As he was so apt in expressing to the goverment and investors and employees, America West needed the merger as much as US Airways. Isn't funny that CEO's say the darndest things when it is advantageous or expedient and there is never any ulterior motive and it's completely honest on it's own merit and not just from a certain point of view.

To even use this line of thinking for justifying your position shows how anti-pilot professional you really are. Let's see, because of corporate machinations, we are justified in stealing the movement based on the other carrier's attrition. Wow here is an article that says so..... :down: I should benefit from their retirements instead of the pilots over there who worked and supported the airline for decades and sacrificed to keep it running. Thats real "union" of you.

 

[ussnark]

Without America West entering their lives they would have had zero chance of upgrading anyway.
US Airways chairman warns of liquidation
Airline Industry Information, August 19, 2004
AIRLINE INDUSTRY INFORMATION-©1997-2004 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTD

The chairman of US Airways has warned employees that they must agree to a new USD800m wage and benefit cut within 30 days or the airline could be liquidated.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CW..._19/ai_n6159069

Remember these days my friend?

Yes, so the employees missed the deadline and what happened? Nothing. That is, nada for green card members, like you.

and BTW, the USAirways CEO was not Bronner, as the "article" implies. Bronner, an "investor". made several such "farts", until the real CEO told him to shut up.

Great factually incorrect article you came up with, macaroon.

Keep fishing with kelp.

 

[Art at ISP]

Actually, Bronner was not the CEO, he was the Chairman of the Board, and he did make those statements--until he was told by the CEO to shut up......I believe it was Lakefield at the time.

As long as the two sides are sniping at each other, there is no hope for a settlement of any kind....sorry to say.....

 

[aquagreen73s]

Without America West entering their lives they would have had zero chance of upgrading anyway.
US Airways chairman warns of liquidation
Airline Industry Information, August 19, 2004
AIRLINE INDUSTRY INFORMATION-©1997-2004 M2 COMMUNICATIONS LTD

The chairman of US Airways has warned employees that they must agree to a new USD800m wage and benefit cut within 30 days or the airline could be liquidated.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0CW..._19/ai_n6159069

Remember these days my friend?

The propensity of some on the East to ignore every bit of empirical evidence relating to East's imminent liquidation shouldn't surprise you. Just look at the East negotiations - there wasn't a shred of evidence from past arbitrations which suggested that their strategy could possibly work. There probably wasn't an arbitrator on this planet that would have awarded DOH under these circumstances, yet they went ahead with a sure loser nonetheless.

 

[ussnark]

The propensity of some on the East to ignore every bit of empirical evidence relating to East's imminent liquidation shouldn't surprise you. Just look at the East negotiations - there wasn't a shred of evidence from past arbitrations which suggested that their strategy could possibly work. There probably wasn't an arbitrator on this planet that would have awarded DOH under these circumstances, yet they went ahead with a sure loser nonetheless.

Um, cretin. Please read post #51.

Compare and contrast with reality.

Rinse and repeat, apparently, repeatedly.

Go back and stick your head in the sand, once again.

Ouch! Sorry you got stucked by a low flying Glass......... gotta keep your head out of the sand.

 

[Cactus737]

1)First, longevity is irrelevant because it's not a tenet of ALPA Merger Policy.

Well....It DOES seemingly count throughout most human experience though. I'm quite certain that you should then raise any/all children with that firmly in mind = never forget that your three month's old opinion is fully as valid as your own, and he/she should have equal "seniority"

So now you're saying that the list should have been ordered by AGE????? Well - AGE isn't a tenet of Merger Policy either. Certainly a merger veteran such as yourself should know that, and shouldn't need a 3 month old to explain it to you.

At least TRY to come up with a valid argument.

2)"BTW - a few dozen of those "newbies" at AWA you speak of were 14-year TWA captains before they started over. The AWA Merger Committee Vice-Chairman is one of them."

WOW!!!...FOURTEEN WHOLE YEARS!!???.... You mean to state that people actually fly for that Looonnng?...I bow to the floor in proper awe

Which is alot more longevity than most of your furloughees have.

3)"Third, you weren't going to have access to any of your attrition pre-merger because you were going to be out of business. So now you have to share SOME of it."

Good luck implementing that I DO seriously chuckle at the evidenced contradiction = "your attrition pre-merger"...ummm..that was/is "YOUR attrition"?....you did say that?...right?..That would mean "attrition" that didn't/never would have/no way/no how have EVER benefitted the AWA crowd?....Am I ok with noting that? Again: "YOUR ATTRITION"?? OK...just checking. SO; The AWA "It's MINE I tell you!!...MINE, MINE, MINE!!!" is actually based upon something to be taken from the east?...and the "Argument" is essentially that it's morally "OK" to steal it...given the idea that it would have otherwise just gone to waste in financial failure?

We were growing pre-merger, your were liquidating. Was it OK for you to steal our growth? Is it OK for you to get 80% of the money in a joint contract? There's a reason the "your attrition" argument failed miserably in the arbitration hearing. If you had actually used facts (like the hearing transcripts) to formulate your opinion, you would know that.

BTW - did you know your MEC plans to try to change ALPA Merger Policy to exclude "financial condition of company" as a way of gauging career expectations? I wonder why that is.

Hmmm..sounds much akin to the following scenario: Man drops wallet...AWA guy steals it. He then returns pennies on the dollar, and self rightously notes that the wallet dropper should be greatfull for getting anything back...after all..someone else might have taken it and he'd have lost everything.

Remind me to never leave any credit cards or loose change around any of the AWA stations

Actually, US Airways reminds me of the movie "Independance Day" where these scavenger aliens come to Earth to kill off the native species and suck the resources dry. So far, that seems to have happened in every US Airways merger.

No joint contract you say? What happened to "let my daddy vote"?

 

[Phoenix]

As long as the two sides are sniping at each other, there is no hope for a settlement of any kind....sorry to say.....

Regarding a seniority dispute of this magnitude, with such a huge gap between each version of reality, there is simply no agreeable settlment possible.

 

[CactusFlyr]

Regarding a seniority dispute of this magnitude, with such a huge gap between each version of reality, there is simply no agreeable settlment possible.

Their agreement is not necessary

 

[Phoenix]

Their agreement is not necessary

AHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

 

[Junebug172]

You east guys kill me.

Once again all talk. Everyone was willing to work under LOA 93 until your contract became amendable. Now its this equal blah blah crap.

I can't wait to see this decert drive embarrass you even more when it fails and your top half sells you out.


Oh ya, and those threats your planning our using, good luck.

What a joke.

 

[Bud8EE]

You east guys kill me.

Once again all talk. Everyone was willing to work under LOA 93 until your contract became amendable. Now its this equal blah blah crap.

I can't wait to see this decert drive embarrass you even more when it fails and your top half sells you out.
Oh ya, and those threats your planning our using, good luck.

What a joke.

I feel sorry for your group, East and West. I hope you know management has you right where they want you. Your ability to strike, any ALPA carrier for that matter has been destroyed. If there is no leverage of a work action, there is no leverage to get anything better than a cram down contract. In short order you will be a larger MESA, run about as poorly, with FAR work rules and pay a little better due to larger aircraft. MESA makes money and so will US Airways, right off the backs of its employees.

West people are dreaming when they tell East guys to get over it and get a better contract. The East pilots feel like they were robbed and stolen from and it wasn't Doug Parker, it was ALPA and supported by the West. People can argue all the want, about well the Merger policy was followed or it wasn't and all it does reinforce that a policy that creates this kind of mess was a failed one. That is the problem with subjective methods and ALPA will pay dearly for this. That is if you buy the old ALPA is "us" the line pilot crap, because what happens there will be the benchmark for everyone else's negotiations and affect the pay and work rules for all of us.

I know there are some in my base that are so proud we are "Council 1" in ALPA. Some legacy huh, I am sure Dave Behncke is all proud of where we have all come. I mean our CH 11 had nothing to do with US or UAL or DAL because everything in this profession is so independent from what is going on elsewhere, so why think this has any affect beyond US Airways.

 

[Phoenix]

..a policy that creates this kind of mess was a failed one.

...ALPA will pay dearly ....

Bingo.

And Prattler prattles on. :down:

In short order you will be a larger MESA, run about as poorly, with FAR work rules and pay a little better due to larger aircraft.

How can you say that? We are represented by ALPA. That would never happen to an ALPA carrier.

Truthfully, USAir is already what MESA was less than five years ago. It is a race and ALPA national is just standing by telling every pilot to keep sending the money to support the Union (that doesn't exist) and support the pilot profession (that ALPA national is pimping). :angry: