That agreement looks and smells like a loser - send it back and tell them to try again. You are giving up to much - it is no raise when you increase your wages by taking things away to cover it. Giving up STD and LTD is not bright unless you can say with 100% confidence that you will never get sick, will never ger hurt off work. You really need to think for the future, and for the future past the 2007 this agreement stinks not just for the east but for those of you that I work with in the west too. Those that agreed to this should be ashamed to present it to you folks.
US Airways And IAM Reach Tentative Agreement For 7,700 Fleet Service Employees
- Thread starter Elevation
- Start date
What would be the problem with keeping profit sharing and getting a raise? It is not unreasonable. If it were not for the hard work and sweat of all of the fleet service employees here, there would be no profits, and no one busting their ass to keep this piss poor operation running as smoothly as it does. I really am in disbelief that anyone could think that what the TA offers is any good.
If that is true than the IAM better start negotiating a contract for the west employees when this thing gets voted down. The west have been in an amendable contract since 2005 and the IAM has done nothing for over a year. The west deserves to lose NOTHING and gain everywhere while these profits are rolling in.
Tim Nelson
Veteran
I think you missed the point.....you already got a better deal. If you sit and do nothing, you end up better than this concessionary contract for you. A yes vote is simply you saying "I believe I want to give Doug Parker the following things":
Following based on predictability approx. of total Job [wages and benefits]. Many asked the IAM for a breakdown of how much each concession was but the IAM has thus far refused to give out monetary details. REMEMBER, IN ANY CONTRACT YOU MUST BREAK DOWN ITS MONETARY WORTH. THE ONLY MONETARY WORTH THE IAM HAS BROKE DOWN IS THE $19 HOUR. THEY HAVE THUS FAR REFUSED TO PUT OUT THE NUMBERS OF EACH CONCESSION. BELOW IS A SUMMARY SOME 'KEY PEOPLE' PUT TOGETHER BASED ON NORMAL AND CUSTOMARY APPROXIMATIONS. The numbers below are only estimations belived to be conservative in nature, but the real numbers may in fact be much higher.
1. STD[.50 cents per hour reduction]
2. LTD [.50 cents per hour reduction]
3. Double time [depending on overtime but a group giveback in the millions, say .50cent per hour but most likely higher]
4. Liberal shift trade policy [priceless]
5. holiday pay [.25 cent per hour reduction]
6. 3 holidays [.50 cent per hour reduction]
7. 1 week of vacation [reduction of 2% of total wage and benefit package, .75cent per hour reduction]
8. shift differ [.51 cent per hour concession
9. $1 additional ops pay [$1 an hour concession]
10. An additional $250 month out of your monthly checks for medical [$1.50 an hour concession]
11. loss of sick pay [worth 22hrs pay per year, or 4 days pay ttl, let's say .50cents per hour worth]
12. Increase doctor's visit co pay, etc. [pony up now, bottom line is good luck]
13. loss of protections of 19 stations in 4 years. [priceless, this concession may likely cost up to 400 jobs in 4 years. This concession is worth millions. Let's be conservative and give its worth at .50cents per hour]
14. Elimination of profit sharing [worth $1hr]
Total losses: Avg -$6.50
Total losses for ops agent on second shift: -$8.00
Gains: Wages: $3.50
Net gain/loss: -$3.00 less per hour of total wage and benefit plan Ops agent on second shift -$4.50hr less per hour
After reviewing these items most of the day, I'm not sure I follow why any westie would actually think about voting all these benefits away. Benefits that the east siders could only dream about.
These are just the things we know. Obviously every article you have in your TWU agreement is better than the IAM's...that's why each article of the east applies to the west and not vice versa.
This contract is a concession that is blanketed by a 3.50cent pay raise. Be careful and force the IAM to put down in writing the cost of each concession.
regards,
Tim Nelson
Veteran
The IAM pension was a 48.2 million concession to our 401k. I know because I was on the chairman committee that had the IAM financial people break down the numbers for us. It also offers restrictions and possible suspensions of payments. It's the only defined benefit pension on the property because it's a dinosaur. 401k, roths, etc are much more user friendly than having the IAM 'hold and invest' your money and you don't get to get it's full benefit until you are almost dead. It's a scandal of the mind and a blast from the past. Your 401k is probably equal in worth if not greater.
This contract is the equivalent of someone stealing your socks without taking your shoes off. It's a scandal of the mind and the union is banking on your ignorance, scamming, slick talking. The numbers don't add up to anything but a concession. As you see in the 11 page enema, the IAM Bosses finally get their enhanced positive space travel in this agreement and THAT's why they want a yes vote.
regards,
perserverance
Senior
- Aug 10, 2007
- 382
- 0
Part Time will no longer be regulated....We need to realize this.
Over the course of time a full time job will dissappear and create
2 four hour shifts...Part Time is the cherry on top of this offering.
I heard that some stations are already mostly p/t ,such as phx...well
phx can quickly turn to phl...pit...bos...clt...its' written right there...
Don't sell out your future...Full Time with Full Time Benifits will turn to
Part Time with Part Time Benifits..there will be no more OT ...WHY ???
God help those with families $$$$ theres' your raise....but wait you'll still
have profit sharing....GULP !!!! THINK !!!!
Thanks
Over the course of time a full time job will dissappear and create
2 four hour shifts...Part Time is the cherry on top of this offering.
I heard that some stations are already mostly p/t ,such as phx...well
phx can quickly turn to phl...pit...bos...clt...its' written right there...
Don't sell out your future...Full Time with Full Time Benifits will turn to
Part Time with Part Time Benifits..there will be no more OT ...WHY ???
God help those with families $$$$ theres' your raise....but wait you'll still
have profit sharing....GULP !!!! THINK !!!!
Thanks
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
- 3,672
- 1,122
I would also like someones educated input on this area of the T/A please...Lots of smoke and mirrors at work here.....
freedom
Veteran
- Feb 15, 2006
- 3,244
- 274
i am throwing the gaulent down ..... i don't think this is a bad contract ..
With this new contract no one loses .
So here we now sit , a splintered union striving to return to what we once were before the 2001 terrorist attacks that devastated the airline industry .Our brothers on the east have endured an unheard of TWO bankruptcies to keep their company alive , and we on the west have worked for YEARS at sub par wages going just a little longer to see the job through .
We have now crossed the threshold and In terms of strategic thinking This contract is a watershed . What our negotiators have done is take nothing less than three distinct work groups , merged them together as one and given each group a pay raise without taking away anything of significant importance to any particular group .
We have lost profit sharing … Tell me , how many of you before you read this contract had enough faith in this company and it’s leadership to assume that we were going to get profit sharing for the next 4 years ? While profit sharing was nice , no one would be crying about giving it away right now if we hadn’t made profit this last quarter .A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush , and if our JNC had to give it back to the company in order to get our pay raises so be it ..
When it comes to our future we shouldn’t gamble . I like many in this world would rather take a sure thing over chance any day of the week . I’m speaking about the east’s arbitration award outcome . Now that this company ‘s offer has been presented to our membership we are in a unique position . People have said that we need to use the possibility of a favorable court ruling in order to secure a better contract , well we’ve just done that ladies and gentlemen . If we now go to arbitration and LOSE the company will in all likely hood take something from this contract OFF the table . In my mind winning would have been unlikely because how many judges do we have sitting on the benches these days that take the WORKERS side ? I urge all of you to take a moment and remember the POLTICAL situation of our country , and that the disposition for the last many years has not been toward protecting or compensating the worker, Especially the blue collar worker .
Even IF we had won , the first thing this company would have done was inform it’s lawyers to start an appeal and tell them to push it as far ahead into the future as possible ,The next thing the company would then do is tell it’s negotiators to work even slower than before at any new contract agreement , constantly citing the fact that arbitration was in lieu . Do you know what the West side fleet workers would then do at this point ? Demand section 6 and the ability to strike , but unfortunately for them the EAST side fleet workers wouldn’t be interested in hearing of such a thing because now that they had won a court case they would all seek to hang on as long as humanly possible for that day in which they might get their “back pay†checks . They would tell us to “be patient†and to suck it up for the union , knowing full well that while our union stalls the west workers would continue on for years at sub par wages and that in the event of a final court victory that NO west worker would EVER receive any profit ,check or gain from such a victory .
In my view it’s better that we are divested of such a possible future outcome because this would have bitterly divided us for years to come .
I want to take moment to remind all of you why this is a GOOD contract and not a BAD contract , it’s good because it UNITES us as never before . After we pass this contract there will be no west workers , there will be no station two workers and there will be no east station one workers , there will only be US .While it’s hard for each of us to see this as a huge plus from our own different self interests, it’s awe inspiring for the next time talks come around . Do you realize that our negotiators have had to bargain with a company that has probably come back with a response of “ well we’re giving your west workers and your station two workers a raise , why should we give the east workers one as well! Do you know how much money we’re spending ??†We cry because our sick pay is at 50% but would you rather we get it at 100 % yet our east workers in the class ONE stations get a negligible raise ? We are all getting those two things which are the most important to any worker , job SECURITY AND PAY .
I now want to speak to the matter of time , I talked about arbitration before , and as you all know in any event it would have taken a lot of time , but we should also be mindful that it will take further time for this company and our union to put together a new contract for us to vote on . To my west brothers and sisters and to a large part the east station two workers , how much longer do you want to go on getting paid crap ? I mean honestly , we complain about portions of this contract , but we are going to get what we want ,MONEY baby ,lots and lots of money … Do any of you really want to delay this contract any further? Shall we push back the end result another year only to make an extra 30 cents at each pay level ? Because that’s about what it would amount too , remember that in order for us to even GET this contract proposal we had to have outside mediation to help us . Some say we need to push this company , push it hard ! Well who among you feels like striking eh ? I have the feeling that we talk tough , but when push comes to shove it would dismaying to see how many would cross the picket line , and do you want to know what the response would be of those who would cross “ I have to feed my family “ . A strike with the west workers would never have succeeded because they never would have had the economic means to hold out .Furthermore if any of you have been paying attention to business news you’d see that it appears we are heading into another recession , Striking workers are easily replaced during economic downturns .
We don’t have what the East had before 9/11 , but then most major airlines don’t either .So calm down , take a breath and remember why you chose a job in the aviation industry . Enjoy a few days off and go somewhere , then tell all of your friends who don’t have airline jobs how great it feels to just “fly “ . To my east station one workers , I want to speak directly to you now , I know you’ve lost a lot through these two bankruptcies and that since the merger the hope of not only going back to the pre bankruptcy wages but also getting back pay has kept you going . That’s a hope that’s hard to let go of , I know if it were me I’d want to hold onto what could be my “ticket “ to the very end , at least emotionally I’d want to do so . But you need to think about yourselves for a moment , I mean think about what’s going to be best for you and your families long term health .Is the stress of the arbitration case REALLY worth it ? Watching it getting battered around in court for years and then maybe losing and thinking to yourself what could have been ? What do you think would be best for you, long term right now ? Waiting to see which way the case might go , or accepting an offer that has considerable advantages for you right now ? Your gonna get more money , that means more food for your family and more dough in your pocket , that sounds like a good deal to me . In fact , in many ways , what your now faced with is a lot of like the game show DEAL OR NO DEAL , if you haven’t watched it , take a moment and check it out (it’s got some hot models! Oh yeah!) . Are you going to walk away with the 300,000 or the 1 cent ? It’s up to you .
Finally if I’ve read this contract right it does something that I think needs to be done ASAP , it rights a tremendous wrong , a sin of one union brother against another . With this contract we can finally recall our union brothers that we expelled ,home with their pay and seniority at the time they were cast away .It is time to pass this contract and wipe away this horrid sixty day rule . Take a moment to Remember your friends that are no longer here .
I cant’ see what’s coming , and neither can anyone else , but we can plan using the information that we have at hand .Our boy doug LOVES to merge , so who knows , maybe this time next year we will be calling ourselves united instead of US AIRWAYS .. I don’t know about most of you , but I’m now tired of fighting the good fight , for me this offer is now a chance , a chance for me to lay down my burden , won’t you ?
With this new contract no one loses .
So here we now sit , a splintered union striving to return to what we once were before the 2001 terrorist attacks that devastated the airline industry .Our brothers on the east have endured an unheard of TWO bankruptcies to keep their company alive , and we on the west have worked for YEARS at sub par wages going just a little longer to see the job through .
We have now crossed the threshold and In terms of strategic thinking This contract is a watershed . What our negotiators have done is take nothing less than three distinct work groups , merged them together as one and given each group a pay raise without taking away anything of significant importance to any particular group .
We have lost profit sharing … Tell me , how many of you before you read this contract had enough faith in this company and it’s leadership to assume that we were going to get profit sharing for the next 4 years ? While profit sharing was nice , no one would be crying about giving it away right now if we hadn’t made profit this last quarter .A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush , and if our JNC had to give it back to the company in order to get our pay raises so be it ..
When it comes to our future we shouldn’t gamble . I like many in this world would rather take a sure thing over chance any day of the week . I’m speaking about the east’s arbitration award outcome . Now that this company ‘s offer has been presented to our membership we are in a unique position . People have said that we need to use the possibility of a favorable court ruling in order to secure a better contract , well we’ve just done that ladies and gentlemen . If we now go to arbitration and LOSE the company will in all likely hood take something from this contract OFF the table . In my mind winning would have been unlikely because how many judges do we have sitting on the benches these days that take the WORKERS side ? I urge all of you to take a moment and remember the POLTICAL situation of our country , and that the disposition for the last many years has not been toward protecting or compensating the worker, Especially the blue collar worker .
Even IF we had won , the first thing this company would have done was inform it’s lawyers to start an appeal and tell them to push it as far ahead into the future as possible ,The next thing the company would then do is tell it’s negotiators to work even slower than before at any new contract agreement , constantly citing the fact that arbitration was in lieu . Do you know what the West side fleet workers would then do at this point ? Demand section 6 and the ability to strike , but unfortunately for them the EAST side fleet workers wouldn’t be interested in hearing of such a thing because now that they had won a court case they would all seek to hang on as long as humanly possible for that day in which they might get their “back pay†checks . They would tell us to “be patient†and to suck it up for the union , knowing full well that while our union stalls the west workers would continue on for years at sub par wages and that in the event of a final court victory that NO west worker would EVER receive any profit ,check or gain from such a victory .
In my view it’s better that we are divested of such a possible future outcome because this would have bitterly divided us for years to come .
I want to take moment to remind all of you why this is a GOOD contract and not a BAD contract , it’s good because it UNITES us as never before . After we pass this contract there will be no west workers , there will be no station two workers and there will be no east station one workers , there will only be US .While it’s hard for each of us to see this as a huge plus from our own different self interests, it’s awe inspiring for the next time talks come around . Do you realize that our negotiators have had to bargain with a company that has probably come back with a response of “ well we’re giving your west workers and your station two workers a raise , why should we give the east workers one as well! Do you know how much money we’re spending ??†We cry because our sick pay is at 50% but would you rather we get it at 100 % yet our east workers in the class ONE stations get a negligible raise ? We are all getting those two things which are the most important to any worker , job SECURITY AND PAY .
I now want to speak to the matter of time , I talked about arbitration before , and as you all know in any event it would have taken a lot of time , but we should also be mindful that it will take further time for this company and our union to put together a new contract for us to vote on . To my west brothers and sisters and to a large part the east station two workers , how much longer do you want to go on getting paid crap ? I mean honestly , we complain about portions of this contract , but we are going to get what we want ,MONEY baby ,lots and lots of money … Do any of you really want to delay this contract any further? Shall we push back the end result another year only to make an extra 30 cents at each pay level ? Because that’s about what it would amount too , remember that in order for us to even GET this contract proposal we had to have outside mediation to help us . Some say we need to push this company , push it hard ! Well who among you feels like striking eh ? I have the feeling that we talk tough , but when push comes to shove it would dismaying to see how many would cross the picket line , and do you want to know what the response would be of those who would cross “ I have to feed my family “ . A strike with the west workers would never have succeeded because they never would have had the economic means to hold out .Furthermore if any of you have been paying attention to business news you’d see that it appears we are heading into another recession , Striking workers are easily replaced during economic downturns .
We don’t have what the East had before 9/11 , but then most major airlines don’t either .So calm down , take a breath and remember why you chose a job in the aviation industry . Enjoy a few days off and go somewhere , then tell all of your friends who don’t have airline jobs how great it feels to just “fly “ . To my east station one workers , I want to speak directly to you now , I know you’ve lost a lot through these two bankruptcies and that since the merger the hope of not only going back to the pre bankruptcy wages but also getting back pay has kept you going . That’s a hope that’s hard to let go of , I know if it were me I’d want to hold onto what could be my “ticket “ to the very end , at least emotionally I’d want to do so . But you need to think about yourselves for a moment , I mean think about what’s going to be best for you and your families long term health .Is the stress of the arbitration case REALLY worth it ? Watching it getting battered around in court for years and then maybe losing and thinking to yourself what could have been ? What do you think would be best for you, long term right now ? Waiting to see which way the case might go , or accepting an offer that has considerable advantages for you right now ? Your gonna get more money , that means more food for your family and more dough in your pocket , that sounds like a good deal to me . In fact , in many ways , what your now faced with is a lot of like the game show DEAL OR NO DEAL , if you haven’t watched it , take a moment and check it out (it’s got some hot models! Oh yeah!) . Are you going to walk away with the 300,000 or the 1 cent ? It’s up to you .
Finally if I’ve read this contract right it does something that I think needs to be done ASAP , it rights a tremendous wrong , a sin of one union brother against another . With this contract we can finally recall our union brothers that we expelled ,home with their pay and seniority at the time they were cast away .It is time to pass this contract and wipe away this horrid sixty day rule . Take a moment to Remember your friends that are no longer here .
I cant’ see what’s coming , and neither can anyone else , but we can plan using the information that we have at hand .Our boy doug LOVES to merge , so who knows , maybe this time next year we will be calling ourselves united instead of US AIRWAYS .. I don’t know about most of you , but I’m now tired of fighting the good fight , for me this offer is now a chance , a chance for me to lay down my burden , won’t you ?
Tim Nelson
Veteran
This has little to do with arbitration. Even if arbitration loses, why lose everything else by voting yes?
I'm not following you on this one. Nobody HAS to vote yes. The employees DON"T need this although your company needs a transition agreement. Don't be anxious, be careful. This agreement is akin to someone stealing your socks and leaving your shoes on while doing it.
regards,
freedom
Veteran
- Feb 15, 2006
- 3,244
- 274
This has EVERYTHING to do with arbitration , if we go forward with it and LOSE the company will think it has the upper hand and the NEXT contract that we vote on will look WORSE than this ...
if we WIN the east will NEVER , EVER , EVER trade away their "arbitration" checks , it's human nature to be greedy , remember that ... Also remember that while we wait for arbitration to resolve one way or another doug parker will not provide a seperate transition agreement for the west workers , which means west workers , that what your making now , you'll still be making 2 years from now .
Very good post freedom.
I just want to add one more item. This was never about opening the entire contract.
If you all thought that than you dont understand. This was just about tring to merge 2 contracts together in the best possible way. It may not be the best but its what we have.
Lets take what we can now and at the end we can be stronger and get the best of the best next time.
I just want to add one more item. This was never about opening the entire contract.
If you all thought that than you dont understand. This was just about tring to merge 2 contracts together in the best possible way. It may not be the best but its what we have.
Lets take what we can now and at the end we can be stronger and get the best of the best next time.
freedom
Veteran
- Feb 15, 2006
- 3,244
- 274
you know alot of times i forget about that point henderfuzz ...
East if it weren't for this merger you'd be stuck at what you have right now ..
West , if it weren't for this merger i doubt any agreement with this company would have ended up as good as this offer ..
East if it weren't for this merger you'd be stuck at what you have right now ..
West , if it weren't for this merger i doubt any agreement with this company would have ended up as good as this offer ..
Tim Nelson
Veteran
I disagree about this contract with you regarding arbitration, but if arbitration is won then it is huge. I can totally see westies not wanting to send this back, it would amount to having to trust PHL. And I can assure you, it is unwise to trust PHL, they will sell you out everytime just like they sold out their own. Is this contract a step forward? No, no matter how much henderfuzz sez it is. But if fleet goes to arbitration then I can totally see the westies and class 2's shut out. Likewise, there is 'good reason' for westies and class 2's to vote yes.
regards,
You are wrong my friend. Arbitration is the only answer. You guys and gals are at the bottom of the totem pole when it comes to front line workers. No offense. Stand up to the company and just say a big NO!!!!! Don't you think it is funny how fast they negotiated this contract? They are playing big games publicity wise and trying to make an example out of the rampers. If you fold, then they can only gain in other negotiations with fa's, mechanics, and pilots. JMHO :down:
