US Pilot Labor Thread 11/3-11/9

[luvthe9]

Delta shares the wealth with employees - in a time of budget cuts, layoffs and economic unrest in our industry, one airline is bucking the trend and actually doing right by their employees. Delta shareholders recently approved a request from the airline’s management team to distribute up to 15% of the merged company’s stock to employees of both Delta and Northwest.

In a statement, Delta management explained, “this unprecedented request of our shareholders was made because we believe our people differentiate us from the competition and because we want Delta to be a great place to workâ€￾.

You think we’ll see a similar employee stock offer? Based upon the latest proposals from the Company at the negotiating table, don’t hold your breath.

 

[ableoneable]

Provide proof of your allegations please, sir. Maybe we could investigate your history of posts vs oldie and see what we come up with. Now I have my homework assignment for tonight.

I believe that I did provide the proof but I will provide it once again:

QUOTE(oldiebutgoody @ Nov 7 2007, 09:52 AM)
The arbitrator ignored all of it, even choosing to use an incorrect seniority list for the East guys which was submitted by the West side. Looks pretty slanted to me, and I'm a bystander. ALPA's entire goal in this was to destroy the East guys seniority for future mergers.

As you see Oldie attempted to portray himself as a bystander with no point of view bias while he earlier claimed to be a USAir A-320 pilot:

QUOTE (oldiebutgoody @ October 24, 2002, 04:04 AM)
Those appear to be the HIGHEST paid categories. This is a reprint from another source, as ALPA would not approve of Chip publishing any of the actual numbers. As an Airbus 320 guy at U, I can tell you that UAL pays AT LEAST 25% more than U in both captain and F/O categories, and we fly the A321....

Later he gave us these gems:

I will neither confirm nor deny my employment status with ANY carrier, corporation OR government agency, except to say that I am definitely presently employed.


My situation is a unique one, but it's NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!

I HOPE that YOU are one of the NEW FURLOUGHEES. If someone's got to go, may as well be the ignoramuses!

I also hope that YOU get to fight for YOUR rightful seniority when you get back, possibly AFTER another merger or two. Since "bumping" is not (and has never been) allowed, you can argue how your "Time" is more valuable than someone else's (what a jerk!)

And no, I don't have to explain ANY of it to you, my ignorant friend!
Later. Don't forget your paper hat!

He claims he is and is not an east pilot and he seems obsessed with paper hats.

 

[traderjake]

Yesterday the accusation was "stealing seniority" today its "stealing jobs".

Seniority determines your job. For the most part it's the same thing.

 

[john john]

distribute up to 15% of the merged company’s stock to employees of both Delta and Northwest.

In a statement, Delta management explained, “this unprecedented request of our shareholders was made because we believe our people differentiate us from the competition and because we want Delta to be a great place to workâ€￾.

You think we’ll see a similar employee stock offer? Based upon the latest proposals from the Company at the negotiating table, don’t hold your breath.

US has Triple play but not a union vote in the lurks

 

[nostradamus]

He claims he is and is not an east pilot and he seems obsessed with paper hats.

" "QUOTE(oldiebutgoody @ Nov 7 2007, 09:52 AM)
The arbitrator ignored all of it, even choosing to use an incorrect seniority list for the East guys which was submitted by the West side. Looks pretty slanted to me, and I'm a bystander. ALPA's entire goal in this was to destroy the East guys seniority for future mergers." "

Oldie is not claiming he is working or not working for Us Airways, because he is not an idiot. He knows there are people monitoring this board looking to hang someone out to dry.

As far as his quote above, I agree with him 100 percent. Alpa did not use the MDA pilots nor did Nicolau, in their calculations. The whole arbitration was slanted because they used "two pilot neutrals" one from united and one from continental. alpa knew darn well that a merger was in the making with united and prater is a pilot for continental, the conflict of interest is striking.

alpa's entire goal was to protect the united pilots. They wanted this to be an american airlines, TWA situation. IE cut out the past dues payers and cater to the possible future ones.

There is a reason why one group of pilots look at this flawed nic results as roses and another group perceives it as the thorns.

united pilots are now on record to change the merger policy once again, now that they have 1000 pilots on furlough.

 

[ableoneable]

" "QUOTE(oldiebutgoody @ Nov 7 2007, 09:52 AM)
The arbitrator ignored all of it, even choosing to use an incorrect seniority list for the East guys which was submitted by the West side. Looks pretty slanted to me, and I'm a bystander. ALPA's entire goal in this was to destroy the East guys seniority for future mergers." "

Oldie is not claiming he is working or not working for Us Airways, because he is not an idiot. He knows there are people monitoring this board looking to hang someone out to dry.

I disagree with your assessment. He is, in fact, attempting to claim that he is "just a bystander" in an attempt to present his views as unbiased. The evidence does not gel with your theory that he is not an idiot.

As far as his quote above, I agree with him 100 percent. Alpa did not use the MDA pilots nor did Nicolau, in their calculations. The whole arbitration was slanted because they used "two pilot neutrals" one from united and one from continental. alpa knew darn well that a merger was in the making with united and prater is a pilot for continental, the conflict of interest is striking.

It was your side that chose one of the neutrals. He could have come from any ALPA carrier. It was completely your choice, not ALPA's.

alpa's entire goal was to protect the united pilots. They wanted this to be an american airlines, TWA situation. IE cut out the past dues payers and cater to the possible future ones.

Prater was, and still is, very sympathetic to the the east pilots and took every opportunity to attempt a do-over. Had he been able to go further, without ending up on the wrong side of the law, he would have.

There is a reason why one group of pilots look at this flawed nic results as roses and another group perceives it as the thorns.

united pilots are now on record to change the merger policy once again, now that they have 1000 pilots on furlough.

Spin all that you want. He is not an unaffected bystander he is a participant. He lied.

You defend him, not because you believe he did not lie, but because you share his views. You are equally transparent.

 

[nostradamus]

ableoneable quote

" "It was your side that chose one of the neutrals. He could have come from any ALPA carrier. It was completely your choice, not ALPA's." "


My choice.

Within a month you decide which choice a Us Airways pilot had in the following alpa press releases? I will give you a hint, the one the pilots were allowed to vote on.

The Us Airways alpa "leaders" were a runaway freight train, they were out of control and thought they were heading for an alpa national job. Not so fast. I have never met so many cowards in my life than alpa representatives.

Was this Us Airways pilots actual choice? Click here.

Or was this? click here

 

[traderjake]

Some people confuse courage with being stupid.

The DOH of arbitration strategy was stupid.

USAPA supporters are the most unethical and incompetent people I've met.

 

[nostradamus]

Some people confuse courage with being stupid.

The DOH of arbitration strategy was stupid.

USAPA supporters are the most unethical and incompetent people I've met.

May I refer to a quote you made not too long ago;


traderjake
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Posted on: Sep 23 2004, 04:44 PM



Group: Registered Member
Posts: 370
Joined: 30-August 02
Member No.: 726


" "ALPA is irrelevent because deregulation finally killed its government sanctioned labor monopoly.

The guy on the street is willing to work for LCCs for less money than we make now. He's not going to stay home to protect our paycheck, nor should he. That's why "the piloting profession as we know it is dead" ".
Forum: US Airways · Post Preview: #183654 · Replies: 47 · Views: 3,979


Traitorjake

People with courage did something about alpa, alpa was and is unethical and incompetent.

Other folks decided to sit back and do nothing but complain. Your less than inspiring and intelligent effort of past, sitting around and doing nothing, was devoid of any short or long term results.

 

[fatherabraham]

I disagree with your assessment. He is, in fact, attempting to claim that he is "just a bystander" in an attempt to present his views as unbiased. The evidence does not gel with your theory that he is not an idiot.



Spin all that you want. He is not an unaffected bystander he is a participant. He lied.

ableoneable,

You are labeling another liar/idiot from the written word and against board rules. This demonstrates a lack of understanding of basic communication or some sort of God enabled mind reading ability.
The BYSTANDER comment could be interpreted in many different ways.
You drew the conclusion "in an attempt to present his views as unbiased" and ALL know ALL are biased in some degree on this board and life in general.

Again i will state my bias : If the nic award was done correctly then east/west would have been equally upset. Long aftwerward we have West fighting for the Nic award and East against. If all had been equal then West would be indifferent about East not accepting Nic decree.

FA

 

[electricjet98]

ableoneable,

If the nic award was done correctly then east/west would have been equally upset. Long aftwerward we have West fighting for the Nic award and East against. If all had been equal then West would be indifferent about East not accepting Nic decree.

FA

If the west leadership had been as unreasonable and willing to mislead their constituents as to what was attainable and deserved as what the east was telling their pilots, the west pilots would also be crying like babies.

 

[NiceLandingCaptain]

ableoneable,

You are labeling another liar/idiot from the written word and against board rules. This demonstrates a lack of understanding of basic communication or some sort of God enabled mind reading ability.
The BYSTANDER comment could be interpreted in many different ways.
You drew the conclusion "in an attempt to present his views as unbiased" and ALL know ALL are biased in some degree on this board and life in general.

Again i will state my bias : If the nic award was done correctly then east/west would have been equally upset. Long aftwerward we have West fighting for the Nic award and East against. If all had been equal then West would be indifferent about East not accepting Nic decree.

FA

It appears as though your bias is biased by the fact that you are part of the east infection.

The west defends the Nic because we are mature enough to accept the outcome of the agreed-to arbitration process that was used. There are many of us who do not like the award and are very upset at the outcome. But yet we are in acceptance of the result. And we are willing to fight the usapa injustice. What we have is called maturity.

The east, OTOH, has evolved into a bunch of immoral, illogical, and self-absorbed child-pilots.

Nearly every front-line employee throughout this industry is aware of the east's actions and detests what you are trying to do to the west. Knowledge of your underhandedness is ubiquitous throughout the industry. FAA, ATC, OAL's, and even informed passengers have strong opinions about the division you have created. I don't need to write here what words are used describing the east.

So, yea, we are upset. But in a way you may not like.

 

[electricjet98]

November 8th Update and News
Dear AWA Pilots,

Please log in to read our latest (and primary) update, published late Sunday evening.

As you are probably aware, USAPA currently has a vote open on three items, which closes tomorrow afternoon at 1400 Eastern time. Two of the items are certainly worth considering; an assessment to help pay for medical benefits for furloughed pilots, and an assessment of the membership for merger preparations in the event of an official merger announcement. The other item, ratification of significant changes to the USAPA constitution, is a bit more problematic for those of us in the West. (click "read more" for additional information about the vote and upcoming meeting)

 

[fatherabraham]

So, yea, we are upset. But in a way you may not like.

Nlc and West,

I watched the last Parker/pilot meet the other day. If that group was representable of West group than I underestimated the dismay. Common sense tells me AAA and AWA hired overall equally " right-minded " folk. Interesting observation that West & East friends and aquantices all agree with their respective POV.
True my Bias clearly leans toward the East POV.
Granted AAA has always been the "red headed step child " of industry , but i do not recall AWA as the "moral " airline of choice either.

FA

 

[nostradamus]

There are many of us who do not like the award and are very upset at the outcome.

Please name one example of a west pilot that was upset about the nicolau award and why.