White Male Club

[delldude]

 


Obviously not written by enlisted NCO's or career officers, and probably the same "now we get to tell" types who decided it might be a good idea to change the "older than the US" Marine Corps over to unisex uniforms...eolesen, on 31 Oct 2013 - 11:56 PM, said:

I'd love to see Tree go thru boot camp... there is no racism there -- everybody is equal.  There are only two benchmarks: male and female, because there is no white privilege when it comes to bullets and roadside bombs...
Sure, somehow all the bias that people hold just magically disappears when they put a uniform on.  OH wait, not all of them.  There were a hand full of sexual assault cases .. OK may be a bit more than a few.  Of course racism and bigotry does not exist in the hallowed halls of the military.
 
Asian
 
White supremists
 
Gays - take you pick of examples
 
Tailhook
 
The level of your ignorance is truly astonishing. 


 
And you know this from personal experience or an article you read in the paper?
 
Speaking of ignorance.......and you jump right on the military social engineering bandwagon by some wonks who most likely never have or never will serve.
 
And what percent of the military population suffer from what you speak of and how does this compare to similar issues in the civilian population?

 

[EastUS1]

The level of your ignorance is truly astonishing. 

 
Seriously?
 
Words just fail me here. You've previously noted you were unable to serve, and thus can have zero personal experience with the military enviornment and culture. The armed forces exist for purely one reason, and ONE reason only, and that is to kill and destroy as the nation requires. The true value of respected Tradition within that setting can't be even imagined by anyone who's never served. Social experimentation within military culture generally serves only to weaken or even sabotage it entirely. I'll never forget the universal response to slick willie's forcing "sensitivity training" on us. My immediate thoughts were along the lines of: Does this pathetic little, draft-dodging-chickensh-t seriously want the USAF to express tender understanding and caring for all others (which necessarily includes enemies) before or after blasting them into bone fragments to be discovered by future archeologists!? Gosh/Golly Saddam/Al Queda/whoever's ordered to be defeated: We are really, really sorry to have to kill you, but we all sincerely promise that we revere and respect your culture and beliefs and will cheerfully "embrace" your "diversity". Heck! We'll even give you all a warm and tender hug first, if that's proper in your culture and there's enough time. So...Does everybody feel better now?....? I mean, after all "feelings", and not silly little notions about success on the battlefield, are really all that's important in this world...right?
 
The current rate for suicides in returning veterans is at an unbelievable and completely obscene level that's unmatched or even previously dreamed of in all of history. I've no doubt some of that sorry situation directly results from not even combat stress, but the inherent insanity within the "new order" of things. Even from Desert Storm back in '91; it was very clear that our moral compass and sense of national self had broken down.  Chaplains, priests and rabbis alike were forbidden to  publicly, if only on base, even wear their religious insignia, for concerns over "offending our Saudi hosts."...the same supposed "hosts" (as if it was all merely some sick kind of social gathering) that depended on US Forces to save them from waking up in the morning to find themselves "brushing their teeth" with Iraqi T-72 tank tracks. As a Nation?... We've simply and completely lost our collective mind, it seems.
 
I'd say what I really think but my unicorn's double-parked and time's precious here.

 

[Ms Tree]

 
Seriously?
 
Words just fail me here. You've previously noted you were unable to serve, and thus can have zero personal experience with the military enviornment and culture. The armed forces exist for purely one reason, and ONE reason only, and that is to kill and destroy as the nation requires. The true value of respected Tradition within that setting can't be even imagined by anyone who's never served. Social experimentation within military culture generally serves only to weaken or even sabotage it entirely. I'll never forget the universal response to slick willie's forcing "sensitivity training" on us. My immediate thoughts were along the lines of: Does this pathetic little, draft-dodging-chickensh-t seriously want the USAF to express tender understanding and caring for all others (which necessarily includes enemies) before or after blasting them into bone fragments to be discovered by future archeologists!? Gosh/Golly Saddam/Al Queda/whoever's ordered to be defeated: We are really, really sorry to have to kill you, but we all sincerely promise that we revere and respect your culture and beliefs and will cheerfully "embrace" your "diversity". Heck! We'll even give you all a warm and tender hug first, if that's proper in your culture and there's enough time. So...Does everybody feel better now?....? I mean, after all "feelings", and not silly little notions about success on the battlefield, are really all that's important in this world...right?
 
The current rate for suicides in returning veterans is at an unbelievable and completely obscene level that's unmatched or even previously dreamed of in all of history. I've no doubt some of that sorry situation directly results from not even combat stress, but the inherent insanity within the "new order" of things. Even from Desert Storm back in '91; it was very clear that our moral compass and sense of national self had broken down.  Chaplains, priests and rabbis alike were forbidden to  publicly, if only on base, even wear their religious insignia, for concerns over "offending our Saudi hosts."...the same supposed "hosts" (as if it was all merely some sick kind of social gathering) that depended on US Forces to save them from waking up in the morning to find themselves "brushing their teeth" with Iraqi T-72 tank tracks. As a Nation?... We've simply and completely lost our collective mind, it seems.
 
I'd say what I really think but my unicorn's double-parked and time's precious here.

 
 
And yet ........

 

[delldude]

 
 
And yet ........

 

 
The things that I saw from my experience was extremely appalling. Being a man of color myself, I witnessed as well as many other soldiers at the company I was stationed at a sort of reverse racism. When a detail had to be done or performed on the premises of our company, our 1st. Sgt. would select mostly a group of white enlisted members to pick up trash that was randomly scattered on the lawn. After two months, it never took a genius to discover a pattern. There would be some black, and Hispanic soldiers that would be selected in odd details at times (myself included). But the only reason as to why we were selected was because we were either quiet, to ourselves, or not completely in line with the things that were going on. I had a close friend (white) who was constantly reprimanded by our superiors for a lot of nonsense. I would often assure him that you got to keep your head high because we're dealing with a racist chain-of-command that likes putting many of the white soldiers down.

 

 
What this is about is President Obama's efforts to fundamentally transform America by concentrating on one institution at a time. This is his effort to turn the military...purging it of commanders,enlisted men and officers who vote 'wrong' and might not follow his agenda and replacing them with more pliable and servile troops..while indoctrinating as many of the others as possible.

I dislike using this comparison, but need I point out that über-progressive Adolf Hitler did exactly the same thing once he took power?
 
http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-official-pentagontraining-manuals.html

 
 
Divide and conquer the US military, Tree and you support it.

 

[delldude]

 
 
And yet ........

 
The Daily Caller is reporting that U.S. Navy SEALs have received an order to cease wearing their traditional 'Don't Tread On Me' patches on their uniforms, per orders from their commanders.
 
The 'Don't Tread On Me' jack and symbol is the long time traditional emblem of the U.S. Navy dating back to the American Revolution. In fact, an official Naval order,  SECNAV Instruction 10520.6 clearly states that as of 31 May 2002 all ships are to fly the flag throughout the duration of what was then known as the War on Terror.The SEAL's have worn the shoulder patch with pride since their inception, and it has seen action in any number of fierce battles.
 
The reason the SEALs are no longer permitted to wear the patch? Direct from the Obama-run Pentagon. It appears that the patch and Naval Jack are "too closely associated with radical groups.”

Obviously, our current commander in chief feels that the ''Don't Tread On Me' jack and symbol are associated with the Tea Party, those radical Americans who want smaller government and revere the Constitution. So in order to further demoralize what he refers to as 'my military', he obviously ordered a piece of their proud heritage to be trashed in a small, petty exercise of power.

The SEAL's and other Naval personnel will obviously have to knuckle under to this tyranny. In today's military (and I've heard more than one horror story from my correspondents), even the impression of not bowing to the Thought Police or the New Order is enough to get you tossed out of the service without cause as part of the 'restructuring' of our military this president wants.

We had better begin thinking about the implications of what this president is doing to our military. We may need them to defend us someday. http://joshuapundit.blogspot.com/
 

I dislike using this comparison, but need I point out that über-progressive Adolf Hitler did exactly the same thing once he took power?
 

 

[EastUS1]

We had better begin thinking about the implications of what this president is doing to our military. We may need them to defend us someday.

 
That sums the dangers of this toxic, purely politically motivated, and just plain clinically insane BS up perfectly.

 

[EastUS1]

 
 
And yet ........

 
"And yet" WHAT?

 

[EastUS1]

"In the great journal of things happening under the sun, we, the American People,........We find ourselves in the peaceful possession, of the fairest portion of the earth, as regards extent of territory, fertility of soil, and salubrity of climate. We find ourselves under the government of a system of political institutions, conducing more essentially to the ends of civil and religious liberty, than any of which the history of former times tells us. We, when mounting the stage of existence, found ourselves the legal inheritors of these fundamental blessings. We toiled not in the acquirement or establishment of them--they are a legacy bequeathed us, by a once hardy, brave, and patriotic, but now lamented and departed race of ancestors. Their's was the task (and nobly they performed it) to possess themselves, and through themselves, us, of this goodly land; and to uprear upon its hills and its valleys, a political edifice of liberty and equal rights; 'tis ours only, to transmit these, the former, unprofaned by the foot of an invader; the latter, undecayed by the lapse of time and untorn by usurpation, to the latest generation that fate shall permit the world to know. This task of gratitude to our fathers, justice to ourselves, duty to posterity, and love for our species in general, all imperatively require us faithfully to perform.
 
How then shall we perform it?--At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it?-- Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant, to step the Ocean, and crush us at a blow? Never!--All the armies of Europe, Asia and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth (our own excepted) in their military chest; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force, take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in a trial of a thousand years.
At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.
I hope I am over wary; but if I am not, there is, even now, something of ill-omen, amongst us. I mean the increasing disregard for law which pervades the country; the growing disposition to substitute the wild and furious passions, in lieu of the sober judgment...."
 
Abraham Lincoln...
 
For any who missed it:  "At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide."

 

[Ms Tree]

 
"And yet" WHAT?

Exactly.

An entire rant against everything and not a single alternative to help fix the problems. Typical.

 

[EastUS1]

Exactly.

An entire rant against everything and not a single alternative to help fix the problems. Typical.

 
Define whatever problems you're supposedly addressing first....? If you want to eliminate sexual assaults and harrassment; there's an easy fix for that. Return to a traditionally male military that doesn't represent some spiritually sick society that's just perfectly fine with feeding even it's own young women into combat meat grinders. If young people of both genders are subjected to extreme stress; they'll always be problems resulting from a mixture. Even placing a couple hundred young ladies aboard a capital ship like a carrier, then isolating them from the world on a confined warship, otherwise crewed by thousands of young males, and imagining they won't personally interact's pure fantasy that's suitable for village idiots only. To pretend otherwise is to deny human nature entirely.
 
Next: Up the pay for lower ranks to make military service a supportable life for them to even raise families with. Draw in and support enough new troops so there's no need to severely abuse them by countless combat tours without relief/etc.
 
I can think of a great many ways to "fix the problems", none of which are at all "politically correct". What I know from personal experience is that whenever "politically correct" BS/insanity was increasingly introduced that morale and efficiency suffered...Period. What truly brilliant solution to supposedly "fix the problems" have you in mind? In my years of sevice; all I ever saw come from the "politically correct" side were ways to create entirely new problems (weaken training standards and undermine morale and unit effectiveness) and certainly never solve any.
 
Bottom Line: What's your intended use for America's forces?....To gather 'round the campfire, gently hold hands and sing a few rounds of Kumbayah?...Or to kill the enemies of this Nation?
 
Do you suggest that any future attacks on the likes of Omaha Beach or Iwo Jima should be done on a Ladies-and-Minorities-First basis to avoid discrimination?...And that the first waves only be landed after successfully passing exams proving their willingess to embrace the enemy's culture and diversity? I'll naturally bow to your vast military expertise here.

 

[delldude]

Exactly.

An entire rant against everything and not a single alternative to help fix the problems. Typical.

 
You're a big guy on demographics....is the military 'racist' situation more or less than in the civilian arena?

 

[eolesen]

I suspect you'll find the statistics lower, mainly because there's less tolerance in general for activity which starts to affect morale, and also because the military tends to have a higher emphasis on following rules & orders...
 
My son is trained to kill enemies of the United States, foreign and domestic.  That's his job.
 
It's Congress and the Executive Branch's job to make sure he has the right tools to do his job, and that the reasons for using his services are sound.  
 
Worrying about things like women on aircraft carriers, DADT, and their hats & patches?  That's all fluff, and what keeps the military voting Republican...

 

[delldude]

I suspect you'll find the statistics lower, mainly because there's less tolerance in general for activity which starts to affect morale, and also because the military tends to have a higher emphasis on following rules & orders...
 
My son is trained to kill enemies of the United States, foreign and domestic.  That's his job.
 
It's Congress and the Executive Branch's job to make sure he has the right tools to do his job, and that the reasons for using his services are sound.  
 
Worrying about things like women on aircraft carriers, DADT, and their hats & patches?  That's all fluff, and what keeps the military voting Republican...

 
But at what point and cost?
Obama's top brass firings are above and beyond any previous.
No chance he's 'fixing' his military?

 

[Ms Tree]

 
Define whatever problems you're supposedly addressing first....? If you want to eliminate sexual assaults and harrassment; there's an easy fix for that. Return to a traditionally male military that doesn't represent some spiritually sick society that's just perfectly fine with feeding even it's own young women into combat meat grinders. If young people of both genders are subjected to extreme stress; they'll always be problems resulting from a mixture. Even placing a couple hundred young ladies aboard a capital ship like a carrier, then isolating them from the world on a confined warship, otherwise crewed by thousands of young males, and imagining they won't personally interact's pure fantasy that's suitable for village idiots only. To pretend otherwise is to deny human nature entirely.
 
Next: Up the pay for lower ranks to make military service a supportable life for them to even raise families with. Draw in and support enough new troops so there's no need to severely abuse them by countless combat tours without relief/etc.
 
I can think of a great many ways to "fix the problems", none of which are at all "politically correct". What I know from personal experience is that whenever "politically correct" BS/insanity was increasingly introduced that morale and efficiency suffered...Period. What truly brilliant solution to supposedly "fix the problems" have you in mind? In my years of sevice; all I ever saw come from the "politically correct" side were ways to create entirely new problems (weaken training standards and undermine morale and unit effectiveness) and certainly never solve any.
 
Bottom Line: What's your intended use for America's forces?....To gather 'round the campfire, gently hold hands and sing a few rounds of Kumbayah?...Or to kill the enemies of this Nation?
 
Do you suggest that any future attacks on the likes of Omaha Beach or Iwo Jima should be done on a Ladies-and-Minorities-First basis to avoid discrimination?...And that the first waves only be landed after successfully passing exams proving their willingess to embrace the enemy's culture and diversity? I'll naturally bow to your vast military expertise here.

I think it is quite telling that you place the blame of the assaults and discrimination on the victims by saying that the victims of the crimes should be removed from the military instead of the perpetrators.  The muslims use that same reasoning for forcing women in to burkas.  The men cannot be trusted to control them selves so the women must suffer.  The whites used that same rational back in the day to keep the military segregated.  By the way, should we kick the minorities out to eliminate the problem of racism as well?   
 
I believe that any US citizen is entitled to the right to help defend their country race, gender or sexual orientation not with standing.  Other countries can do it, I see no reason why the US cannot do the same.  We are in the 21st century, not the 19th.
 
Only people in the military can make comments on the military?  Does that apply to everything or just your POV?  Should only women be allowed to make decisions about their reproductive rights?  How about our spy net works, should they be in charge of their area of expertise?  
 
By the way, you are aware that the military is commanded by civilians not the military right?  The COTUS is quite clear about that.  

 

[Ms Tree]

I suspect you'll find the statistics lower, mainly because there's less tolerance in general for activity which starts to affect morale, and also because the military tends to have a higher emphasis on following rules & orders...
 
My son is trained to kill enemies of the United States, foreign and domestic.  That's his job.
 
It's Congress and the Executive Branch's job to make sure he has the right tools to do his job, and that the reasons for using his services are sound.  
 
Worrying about things like women on aircraft carriers, DADT, and their hats & patches?  That's all fluff, and what keeps the military voting Republican...

According to the Pentagon there were 3,200 assaults in 2211-2012 fiscal year.  How does that compare with the national average?  You made a claim.  Lets see if you are right this time.