Who rides on ferry flights?

[nycbusdriver]

Fire them?

Maybe they should fire you when you refuse an aircraft.

It's a mechanic's legal right not to sign or to sign off their work.

Good union man you are, not

 
Refuse an aircraft with an open, unsigned logbook writeup?  You think I should get fired for that?
 
Have you herd of Federal Aviation Regulations?
 
Mechanics who refuse to do their jobs need to be fired. Simple as that.  Part of the job is signing the logbook.  Using that signature as hostage to get a free ride that is not authorized by FAR's is grounds for termination, in my opinion.  Nothing to do with unions; everything to do with being legal in the eyes of the Feds, and not the company.
 
Get a frigging clue.  I don't work for the union.
 
 
 

Roadking5560, on 05 Mar 2016 - 12:53 PM, said:
I was not on that field trip but what I heard was there were no accommodations available for them so they would have no option but to sit in the terminal until they could get on a flight back home.  On field trips I've been on the company bends over backward to get you on the first flight out but after the plane is fixed you become a non-person.  In many cases you have to fight to get on the manifest so you didn't have to pay any departure fees.  It appears neither you or management care whether the mechanics get home or not after you've humped it all night (outside on the tarmac).  This is of course after working at least a portion of your regular work shift prior to the field trip.  You sir are a sorry lot.

 
Call me sorry if you like.  Does not affect my requirement to do my job properly.
 
If the aircraft was "fixed" and not in need of a maintenance ferry permit, then of course the mechanics could ride.  That is not the circumstance to which I was referring.  The mechanics simply worked to get the aircraft flyable under a maintenance ferry permit, and refused to sign off unless they got an illegal ride home, then I say fire them.  That would be  a job failure on their part.  
 
If no accommodations were available, they would be welcome to spend the night in business class with we pilots and wait for their supervisor in the morning.
 
The airplane flies COMPLETELY LEGAL, or not at all.
 
If you hold a mechanic certificate, you are unprofessional and incompetent.  Thankfully modern airplanes are dependable enough to survive the type of work you obviously accomplish.

 

[lineguy43]

I don't know if Roadking was referring to the AMT's riding a MX ferry I think he was stating the mechanics were on a road trip to to fix the a/c and they made no plans to get the mechanics on the flight back. I have had this happen also. The airlines will make any plans to get the mechanics out to a downed a/c in the field including riding the cockpit jumpseat which in any other circumstance we are not welcome there. But when the job is over they could care less about getting you home. That's where I say fine I am on the clock until I get home especially if they cannot get hotel rooms for me. Now in regards to ferry permits at my company I do ferry permits as a mx controller and anyone who is on the permit can ride. Generally you are right it is usually just the crew riding but that's not to say I cannot put the mechanics on the permit. If mechanics went down to get an airplane airworthy for a ferry flight and there is no way to get them home I am going to look to get them added to the permit.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

I don't know if Roadking was referring to the AMT's riding a MX ferry I think he was stating the mechanics were on a road trip to to fix the a/c and they made no plans to get the mechanics on the flight back. I have had this happen also. The airlines will make any plans to get the mechanics out to a downed a/c in the field including riding the cockpit jumpseat which in any other circumstance we are not welcome there. But when the job is over they could care less about getting you home. That's where I say fine I am on the clock until I get home especially if they cannot get hotel rooms for me. Now in regards to ferry permits at my company I do ferry permits as a mx controller and anyone who is on the permit can ride. Generally you are right it is usually just the crew riding but that's not to say I cannot put the mechanics on the permit. If mechanics went down to get an airplane airworthy for a ferry flight and there is no way to get them home I am going to look to get them added to the permit.

Thanks for that man. I was waiting on someone like you to chime in.

I have done those big road trips fixing them back to passenger ready and also back to ferry ready.

NWA MC and the crew were always ready to have me (us) on board to get home.

We always rode the aircraft home, no matter what the status. Period.

 

[Vortilon]

It's amazing that there are even AMTs going on field trips anymore.  There currently is no double time, so what is the incentive to help the company that thinks so little of you?  Would it be the 2 hour flight stuck between two passengers overflowing into your seat?   Or would it be the thankless job of being stuck in some remote location with little to no support - freezing or sweating your ass off?  Been there done that, not worth it!

 

[700UW]

I have seen pilots refuse airplanes that have a legal MEL.

Get a clue, and the FARs also protect mechanics, they don't have to sign off the book and you can't fire them.

 

[700UW]

Also seen a foreman sign off a logbook without the repair being done, the FAA took his license for two years, so they sent him to the hangar to work instead of being on the line.

 

[nycbusdriver]

I have seen pilots refuse airplanes that have a legal MEL.

Get a clue, and the FARs also protect mechanics, they don't have to sign off the book and you can't fire them.

 
You can fire them if they don't do their job.  What exactly are you smoking now that you are no longer stock clerk qualified?

 

[700UW]

You can legally refuse to fly a plane with a legal MEL and they cant fire you, you cant fire a mechanic for not signing off the book.

 

[lineguy43]

When it comes to pilots refusing a/c and AMT's refusing to sign off work it can get sketchy. Pilots for the most part can refuse an aircraft it is their right. However, if it is a legal MEL with no weather or other considerations and the crew refuses it the flight duty officer might get involved I have had to get the FDO involved in my job when crews have refused a/c for not really a valid reason the crew might have to explain their reasoning as to why but if a crew digs their heels in the plane is not going and usually nothing is said about it. As a matter of fact when I worked for NW there were legal MEL's that were in the pilots contract that they could refuse no questions asked like autopressurization, autopilot and APU just to name a few. Now on the AMT side different story you have to watch that what your doing is justified if you refuse to sign off an airplane you better have a valid reason or you can get hit with insubordination pretty quick.

 

[eolesen]

If the aircraft was "fixed" and not in need of a maintenance ferry permit, then of course the mechanics could ride.  That is not the circumstance to which I was referring.  The mechanics simply worked to get the aircraft flyable under a maintenance ferry permit, and refused to sign off unless they got an illegal ride home, then I say fire them.  That would be  a job failure on their part.

Yeah, with all due respect, you're really full of crap.

It's not a "free ride" or an "illegal ride" when you are on critical company business, especially if you're pulled off the line without an overnight bag and told to go to XYZ.

If the mechanics were considered a must-ride to get to an aircraft that needed to be repaired, then the company has an obligation to get them home at the first opportunity to do so, which is usually the aircraft they've just repaired.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Yeah, with all due respect, you're really full of crap.It's not a "free ride" or an "illegal ride" when you are on critical company business, especially if you're pulled off the line without an overnight bag and told to go to XYZ.If the mechanics were considered a must-ride to get to an aircraft that needed to be repaired, then the company has an obligation to get them home at the first opportunity to do so, which is usually the aircraft they've just repaired.

That is exactly correct. I have flown home several times after I signed the log book "Aircraft Safe for Ferry Flight to XYX" . My crew's names were put on the flight dispatch and off we went.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Yeah, with all due respect, you're really full of crap.

It's not a "free ride" or an "illegal ride" when you are on critical company business, especially if you're pulled off the line without an overnight bag and told to go to XYZ.

If the mechanics were considered a must-ride to get to an aircraft that needed to be repaired, then the company has an obligation to get them home at the first opportunity to do so, which is usually the aircraft they've just repaired.

 
Well, if it is repaired, then yes.  The topic was a maintenance ferry permit which allows only required crew.
 
Try to keep up.

 

[Glenn Quagmire]

Well, if it is repaired, then yes.  The topic was a maintenance ferry permit which allows only required crew.
 
Try to keep up.

And me and my maintenence crew were on the maintenance ferry back to the hub each and every time I led a crew to do an interim repair.

And when we were able to get it back to an airworthy state under 121 regs, our maintenance control and dispatch always ensured that seats were blocked for us to get back on that aircraft (or earlier flight if available).

Why is that so hard to understand?

 

[OldGuy@AA]

In an example of what goes around comes around....  We had a test pilot here in Tulsa that thought he was the greatest thing since sliced bread and was always belittling mechanics and crew chiefs.  One day we saw him park his Mercedes by hangar 5 right on the ramp and he and three women got out.  They all climbed the stairs into a waiting DC 10 and off they went.  Someone dropped a dime on him and it turned out that not only weren't the women supposed to be on a test flight, they didn't even work for AA!  Needless to say he called in every favor owed to him by the pilot's union and it saved his job.  This guy was a prime douchebag and he treated so many mechanics like crap it finally bit him in the butt.  Sometimes you have to wait around to finally see justice.  But I say again, pilots and FAs don't care one bit about AMTs until their airplane is broke and they want to go home.  Then we matter.  Until then we're scum.

 

[Roadking5560]

Amen to that brother!