Why are the pilots worthy of a union representation?

[LukeAisleWalker]

Oh yes I forgot, AFA fails, blame NMB or anyone else for that matter.

It's not about blaming. YOU mentioned a delay in the voting and I gave you my theory as to what AFA was waiting for. Democrats, as a general rule, are more labor friendly. This vote could be really close this time so why shouldn't AFA make the most of the Obama Administration's selection of a new NMB member? Unlike the last two attempts, the higher possiblility of a close outcome could trigger challenges... from both sides.

 

[starlight]

It's not about blaming. YOU mentioned a delay in the voting and I gave you my theory as to what AFA was waiting for. Democrats, as a general rule, are more labor friendly. This vote could be really close this time so why shouldn't AFA make the most of the Obama Administration's selection of a new NMB member? Unlike the last two attempts, the higher possiblility of a close outcome could trigger challenges... from both sides.

Luke- you are correct. I believe there will be a vote sometime this spring. No one is delaying anything- why shouldn't the AFA wait until the change in administration? I am a 22 yr. NW flight attendant, everyone I talk to is, of course, supporting union representation. How's it going over at Delta? I am not a militant supporter but, I absolutely believe that we need to have a written contract. I believe that we can have a good relationship with the company AND have written, negotiated, work rules and guidelines. It is a matter of respecting our work group. How can I help Delta flight attendants who are "on the fence" to understand?

 

[dapoes]

It's not about blaming. YOU mentioned a delay in the voting and I gave you my theory as to what AFA was waiting for. Democrats, as a general rule, are more labor friendly. This vote could be really close this time so why shouldn't AFA make the most of the Obama Administration's selection of a new NMB member? Unlike the last two attempts, the higher possiblility of a close outcome could trigger challenges... from both sides.

Oh yes thats right because AFA somehow believes one girl on the NMB is somehow usurping the union from getting what they want. When reality is she is just applying the same rules that have been in existence for 70+ years. Good luck with that.

Also according to the last NWA AFA Hotline message (January 9th), AFA openly stated that they will not file for a representation election until the FA work groups have been fully merged.

NWA AFA 09 January Hotline Message
NMB RULES ON SINGLE CARRIER STATUS FOR FLIGHT ATTENDANTS
Ruling Not for Flight Attendants - On Wednesday, January 7, the NMB rejected Delta’s argument that a single carrier finding for pilots, flight dispatchers and meteorologists also applies to the other unions including AFA, the IAM and AMFA. The NMB ruled that for purposes of representation, the merger of Northwest and Delta has created a single transportation system for the pilots, flight dispatchers and meteorologists, but affirmed AFA’s position that a representation election can only be initiated by an employee or a Union. AFA will file for a single carrier determination when the respective flight attendant work groups have been fully merged

How many times will they change their tune and stop stalling?

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Oh yes thats right because AFA somehow believes one girl on the NMB is somehow usurping the union from getting what they want. When reality is she is just applying the same rules that have been in existence for 70+ years. Good luck with that.

Also according to the last NWA AFA Hotline message (January 9th), AFA openly stated that they will not file for a representation election until the FA work groups have been fully merged.



How many times will they change their tune and stop stalling?

Once again, dapoes...you are incorrect. (sigh)
Take a look at what you wrote; then look at what you copy/pasted.
Do you see the difference? Or should I point it out to you?

Hint: In your version of the truth the AFA hotline message stated the AFA would not file for a representative election until the FA work groups have been fully merged.
In the hotline you copied/pasted, it states AFA would not file for a SINGLE CARRIER DETERMINATION until the work groups have been merged.

And yes, one "girl" does make a difference. She is the chairwoman. If one person didn't make a difference, why should anyone vote in any election?

 

[dapoes]

Once again, dapoes...you are incorrect. (sigh)
Take a look at what you wrote; then look at what you copy/pasted.
Do you see the difference? Or should I point it out to you?

Hint: In your version of the truth the AFA hotline message stated the AFA would not file for a representative election until the FA work groups have been fully merged.
In the hotline you copied/pasted, it states AFA would not file for a SINGLE CARRIER DETERMINATION until the work groups have been merged.

And yes, one "girl" does make a difference. She is the chairwoman. If one person didn't make a difference, why should anyone vote in any election?

Oops...my bad.

It should read AFA will file for a single carrier determination when the respective flight attendant work groups have been fully merged. Link


So whats the story? They said they won't do anything until the FA's are merged, but in the past said they wouldn't discuss any merged lists (ala lawsuit) until an election is done. Am I missing something?

 

[Dignity]

who are "on the fence" to understand?

sometimes..its not necessarily needed to actually explain a reason rather than to first initially display an attempt to do so..

to sit down with an intent to discuss.. generally is a good start or would have been...

 

[2BlacknBlue]

24 month Furlough Protection - No pilot can be furloughed
Stronger Scope Language
5% pay increase on 1/1/09, 4% EACH year thereafter
Int'l pay for all pilots ($5.20 p/hr for Captains, $3.90 for F/Os)
Increased Profit Sharing
Per Diem increases
Reimbursement of real estate commissions in the event a base is closed within 24 months. Max; $35,000.00
Full pay sick leave hours increased from 240 to 300 hours on a rolling three-year basis
Seat on the Delta Board of Directors
Medical Insurance Retirement improvements
Additional 1% to Defined Contribution Plan (with increases in 2011 and 2012)
3.5 Equity in the merged Company
Delta Air Lines agrees to pay the Union's "costs and fees" incurred as a result of the merger

...The question remains: Would the pilots receive all of these additional post-merger benefits if they were non-contract, non-union Delta employees?

 

[tech2101]

24 month Furlough Protection - No pilot can be furloughed
Stronger Scope Language
5% pay increase on 1/1/09, 4% EACH year thereafter
Int'l pay for all pilots ($5.20 p/hr for Captains, $3.90 for F/Os)
Increased Profit Sharing
Per Diem increases
Reimbursement of real estate commissions in the event a base is closed within 24 months. Max; $35,000.00
Full pay sick leave hours increased from 240 to 300 hours on a rolling three-year basis
Seat on the Delta Board of Directors
Medical Insurance Retirement improvements
Additional 1% to Defined Contribution Plan (with increases in 2011 and 2012)
3.5 Equity in the merged Company
Delta Air Lines agrees to pay the Union's "costs and fees" incurred as a result of the merger

...The question remains: Would the pilots receive all of these additional post-merger benefits if they were non-contract, non-union Delta employees?

No

 

[southwind]

24 month Furlough Protection - No pilot can be furloughed
Stronger Scope Language
5% pay increase on 1/1/09, 4% EACH year thereafter
Int'l pay for all pilots ($5.20 p/hr for Captains, $3.90 for F/Os)
Increased Profit Sharing
Per Diem increases
Reimbursement of real estate commissions in the event a base is closed within 24 months. Max; $35,000.00
Full pay sick leave hours increased from 240 to 300 hours on a rolling three-year basis
Seat on the Delta Board of Directors
Medical Insurance Retirement improvements
Additional 1% to Defined Contribution Plan (with increases in 2011 and 2012)
3.5 Equity in the merged Company
Delta Air Lines agrees to pay the Union's "costs and fees" incurred as a result of the merger

...The question remains: Would the pilots receive all of these additional post-merger benefits if they were non-contract, non-union Delta employees?

You forgot to add : " All of the above is subject to "Re-negotiation or Bankruptcy" ! :blink:

And I'll add : "Re-negotiations to be instigated based on the economy" !

 

[2BlacknBlue]

You forgot to add : " All of the above is subject to "Re-negotiation or Bankruptcy" ! :blink:

And I'll add : "Re-negotiations to be instigated based on the economy" !

...yeah, and we all know what happens if negotiations are neccessary for pilot givebacks, don't we? The non-pilot, non-contract, non-union employees benefits and compensation gets butchered! Second to the bottom in compensation and the very bottom in benefits, huh south? With nothing but promises later on. Naw, you can keep that.

 

[dapoes]

24 month Furlough Protection - No pilot can be furloughed
Stronger Scope Language
5% pay increase on 1/1/09, 4% EACH year thereafter
Int'l pay for all pilots ($5.20 p/hr for Captains, $3.90 for F/Os)
Increased Profit Sharing
Per Diem increases
Reimbursement of real estate commissions in the event a base is closed within 24 months. Max; $35,000.00
Full pay sick leave hours increased from 240 to 300 hours on a rolling three-year basis
Seat on the Delta Board of Directors
Medical Insurance Retirement improvements
Additional 1% to Defined Contribution Plan (with increases in 2011 and 2012)
3.5 Equity in the merged Company
Delta Air Lines agrees to pay the Union's "costs and fees" incurred as a result of the merger

...The question remains: Would the pilots receive all of these additional post-merger benefits if they were non-contract, non-union Delta employees?

Show me one airline who's FA's get the same benefits as the pilots. Show me, show me, show me. With or without a union, the pilots will always come out with more. :blink:

 

[2BlacknBlue]

Show me one airline who's FA's get the same benefits as the pilots. Show me, show me, show me. With or without a union, the pilots will always come out with more. :blink:

Who said anything about a FA? I really could not care less about inflight because they have had multiple opportunities to get a CBA and declined. Therefore, they get what they bargain for...nothing. Last time I checked this was not an "inflight only" board. I'm interested in those guys that are on the operations side that are compensated at the bottom of the "industry standard" scale in compensation and benefits.

p.s. I wonder why we haven't seen the contract for the combined DL dispatchers group. Could it be that their bennies are also better than the non-contract, non-union, non-pilot group? :huh:

 

[dapoes]

Who said anything about a FA? I really could not care less about inflight because they have had multiple opportunities to get a CBA and declined. Therefore, they get what they bargain for...nothing. Last time I checked this was not an "inflight only" board. I'm interested in those guys that are on the operations side that are compensated at the bottom of the "industry standard" scale in compensation and benefits.

p.s. I wonder why we haven't seen the contract for the combined DL dispatchers group. Could it be that their bennies are also better than the non-contract, non-union, non-pilot group? :huh:

So then I guess you were just talking about something you know nothing about perhaps?

 

[2BlacknBlue]

So then I guess you were just talking about something you know nothing about perhaps?

I do know that once my group has a collective bargaining agreement that there will be even less for your group to beg management for! But you can just blame it on the recession and reward the executives with more stock!

 

[Kev3188]

So then I guess you were just talking about something you know nothing about perhaps?

So much irony, so little time...