Wrong airplane?
- Thread starter luvthe9
- Start date
As long as it was the right type and had the right logo on it, no big deal. I've known crews that not only preflighted the wrong airplane, but flew the wrong airplane.
wings396
Veteran
- Aug 20, 2002
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I can't even recall the number of times that I have seen this happen over the years. Most of the time it was caught in time, but I remember one time that it wasn't. This took place with a Mainline crew on a 737. The crew did realize it just prior to leaving the gate, but since the A/C was loaded and ready to go, a call to dispatch was made for an
A/C change. In this incident, there was oversight from the crew, ramp, and gate all at once. Even though this MAY have taken place here, I don't think that it can be linked to the accident. After viewing the Rwy layout of LEX, along with the blocked taxiway, it is easy too see how the crew could have gotten confused.
A/C change. In this incident, there was oversight from the crew, ramp, and gate all at once. Even though this MAY have taken place here, I don't think that it can be linked to the accident. After viewing the Rwy layout of LEX, along with the blocked taxiway, it is easy too see how the crew could have gotten confused.
767jetz
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- Aug 20, 2002
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Interesting.
While preflighting the wrong airplane, and even flying the wrong one (as long as it's the same type)is not unheard of, and could not directly lead to a takeoff on the wrong runway, there is an indirect consequence that some are overlooking that could become a contributing factor... The reduction of situational awareness due to time compression.
If the crew spent half of their preparation time on the wrong airplane, it is conceivable that they were rushing to keep the schedule. All of us who fly professionally have seen the effects of haste during task saturated phases of flight. Of course it is the crew's responsibility to manage these elements and always weigh safety against schedule. But add to that the early hour, poor lighting, fatigue, the distractions of the financial state of the industry, etc. and it's not hard to see the chain of events leading to a potential disaster.
AOL is reporting that the controller cleared the comair flight for take-off and then turned around to do some administrative duties...even though he had a clear view of the runways, he did not look to make sure the aircraft was on the correct runway which is against procedure
another event in the error chain..
Next time lets have a tower guy in a chair beside the runway to warns us! Jeez, they can't hold our hands thru a flight!
The Crew made a mistake, a bad one!!! We all have, but most of us were lucky enough to learn and move on from ours... These folks didn't get that chance, and its sad..
The Crew made a mistake, a bad one!!! We all have, but most of us were lucky enough to learn and move on from ours... These folks didn't get that chance, and its sad..
As is usually the case, we're starting to see a whole series of mis-steps that led to this crash. This section in an article from the Lexington paper really hit me...
Scott Zoeckler, a retired Lexington air traffic controller, said the controller's main role is to direct air traffic to make sure planes aren't getting in each others' way à not to make sure the pilots are doing their jobs correctly.
Zoeckler said he has been in contact with the controller, who has 17 years experience, but would not offer his name.
"It's a hard time for him," Zoeckler said. "He did his job. He was doing everything he was supposed to do. And he turns around and sees this ball of fire."
full article
Scott Zoeckler, a retired Lexington air traffic controller, said the controller's main role is to direct air traffic to make sure planes aren't getting in each others' way à not to make sure the pilots are doing their jobs correctly.
Zoeckler said he has been in contact with the controller, who has 17 years experience, but would not offer his name.
"It's a hard time for him," Zoeckler said. "He did his job. He was doing everything he was supposed to do. And he turns around and sees this ball of fire."
full article
I guess you missunderstood what I was talking about or have never heard of the vollont model (not sure if that's correct spelling) or the error chain.
When you look at accidents you can see an error chain or multiple errors that contribute to the accident. Then you look at ways the error chain could have been broken and thus the accident never would have occured.
A perfect example is the Metrojet 737 up in PVD several years back that refused a take-off clearance due to a lost UAL jet and a confused controller. The situational awareness of the 737 crew averted a potential accident with massive loss of life. They broke the error chain.
My point was, along with the contributing factors 767 mentioned, if the story on AOL is true, this could have been the last link in the error chain.
robbedagain
Veteran
but remember he had to worry about traffic above him and the traffic from 10000 feet down to landing as well. he had a lot on his plate and the FAA admitted they failed their own policy by having an understaffed tower. I feel for the guy. and for the folks who never had a chance. may God rest them and heal the injured as well as help the tower guy
The pilots should have double checked the aircraft number on the release with the aircraft number of the plane they were getting on, then they wouldn't be rushed.
Of course sometimes dispatch will change the tail number after the crew has picked up their release - very common on originating flights where multiple aircraft of the same type are. We don't know if that happened, but if the ramper told them they were on the wrong a/c, then the crew probably wandered out and just hopped on the first a/c they saw. I doubt dispatch changed it between the time they got their release then walked out to the a/c for the ramper to know definitively which a/c was going where. Who knows?
It was ultimately the Captain's responsibility to make sure the aircraft was on the correct runway.
There is a reason for command and response communications with the tower.It is designed to REDUCE the error chain.
There is a reason it is called a CONTROL tower as it is suppose to control all traffic on the airfield and in the immediate airspace.
A controller[or the proper number on duty] not preoccupied with other duties could have warned the Comair crew of improper runway selection.
This is one of several factors that will come out in the initial NTSB report.
BeenThereDoneThat
Veteran
The last link in the chain on the ground before takeoff is the Pilot and FO. It appears there was a breakdown in crew cordination/communication and they missed something. All of us can second guess until the cows come home, but will never know until the final investigative report is rendered. At that point there will probably still be questions unanswered.
Besides, what good is any control tower if/when visibility is reduced by weather? Had there been patchy fog at the field would two controllers made a difference?
