You think AA would do this if they believe their employees are will to strike?

[MERV]

Anyone think that AA would do this if they're push to their limits?
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/...eat-strike.html
"British Airways is considering wet-leasing aircraft and even providing additional training to enable other staff to fill cabin crew positions, following.."
Please dont get out of hand.

 

[damajagua]

Anyone think that AA would do this if they're push to their limits?
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/...eat-strike.html
"British Airways is considering wet-leasing aircraft and even providing additional training to enable other staff to fill cabin crew positions, following.."
Please dont get out of hand.

I really do not think that AA would engage in this behavior.

 

[jimntx]

I do. In the first place, they already have a number of management people qualified as f/as. All the FSMs have to attend recurrent training and fly at least one trip/month. It may only be a turn, but...

Wet leasing from a charter airline company would be cheaper than paying our own pilots and f/as to fly the trips. For instance, Ryan Airways (the charter company out of Wichita, not the Irish airline) pays it's f/as something like $20/hr with no expense money, no paid vacations, no paid sick leave. The "lead" f/a on each flight gets $4/hr more. Now these were their rates back in 2003. They may have gone up, but I bet they still pay substantially less than AA. And, IIRC, their f/as are overwater-qualified also, because they do some military charters.

I wouldn't be surprised if the other major airlines might be willing to help out AA if there is a strike. Wth the bad feeling between the other airlines' unions toward APA and APFA over the TWA issue--and,remember pretty much all the majors except Delta are ALPA and AFA which have a DOH merger policy--they may not even get good ole union solidarity to stand in the way. (Don't try to pick nits with "it wasn't a merger. It was a purchase." The DOH policy for AFL-CIO affiliated unions applies regardless of the business transaction when two unionized work forces are merged.)

I'm not saying they will do it. I'm just saying that I wouldn't put it past them. The contempt that upper management at AMR shows toward the line employees just astounds me. Even when I worked in the oil business (which is not what you would call a customer service industry ), I never saw anything even approaching the actions and apparent attitude of AMR executives.

 

[eolesen]

Prior to the APFA strike, AA had "several hundred" management employees go thru the basics to be safety certified as replacements. Some classic stories about a few things that went wrong with service delivery, but it proved the point that AA could operate a limited schedule if necessary. Prior to the failed AFA strike at NWA, they did the same thing with their management employees, and then encouraged employees to keep their quals. AA didn't let anyone outside Flight Service keep their quals as far as I know.

I have little doubt it could be done with a couple months lead time to get the training lines set up, and also refine some of the things that didn't work as well in 1993.

Jim, you say it's contempt. Without question, there are a few officers who have no clue about how things operate outside their 100' circle, or how their actions are perceived outside that 100' circle, but I don't think I'd broad-brush all of upper management as having contempt for the front line.

 

[damajagua]

I do. In the first place, they already have a number of management people qualified as f/as. All the FSMs have to attend recurrent training and fly at least one trip/month. It may only be a turn, but...

Wet leasing from a charter airline company would be cheaper than paying our own pilots and f/as to fly the trips. For instance, Ryan Airways (the charter company out of Wichita, not the Irish airline) pays it's f/as something like $20/hr with no expense money, no paid vacations, no paid sick leave. The "lead" f/a on each flight gets $4/hr more. Now these were their rates back in 2003. They may have gone up, but I bet they still pay substantially less than AA. And, IIRC, their f/as are overwater-qualified also, because they do some military charters.

I wouldn't be surprised if the other major airlines might be willing to help out AA if there is a strike. Wth the bad feeling between the other airlines' unions toward APA and APFA over the TWA issue--and,remember pretty much all the majors except Delta are ALPA and AFA which have a DOH merger policy--they may not even get good ole union solidarity to stand in the way. (Don't try to pick nits with "it wasn't a merger. It was a purchase." The DOH policy for AFL-CIO affiliated unions applies regardless of the business transaction when two unionized work forces are merged.)

I'm not saying they will do it. I'm just saying that I wouldn't put it past them. The contempt that upper management at AMR shows toward the line employees just astounds me. Even when I worked in the oil business (which is not what you would call a customer service industry ), I never saw anything even approaching the actions and apparent attitude of AMR executives.

First of all no one out thre care about the "TWA issue"....Let AA try if they want too. But there is no way that the company could run anything close to a normal schedule. Beside APA and APFA
have both stated that there will be no strke. Both unions might engage in some kind of "self" help if it ever get to tha but it will not be a complete walk off the job strike. Also AA would rather stop all operations than run a few fights here and there.

 

[700UW]

The AFA never struck at NW.

 

[Bob Owens]

I do. In the first place, they already have a number of management people qualified as f/as. All the FSMs have to attend recurrent training and fly at least one trip/month. It may only be a turn, but...

Wet leasing from a charter airline company would be cheaper than paying our own pilots and f/as to fly the trips. For instance, Ryan Airways (the charter company out of Wichita, not the Irish airline) pays it's f/as something like $20/hr with no expense money, no paid vacations, no paid sick leave. The "lead" f/a on each flight gets $4/hr more. Now these were their rates back in 2003. They may have gone up, but I bet they still pay substantially less than AA. And, IIRC, their f/as are overwater-qualified also, because they do some military charters.

Yea and what makes you think the housewives out of Wichita who fly part time are willing to leave their families and move to a major city and work full time at rates that wouldnt even pay the rent?

I wouldn't be surprised if the other major airlines might be willing to help out AA if there is a strike. Wth the bad feeling between the other airlines' unions toward APA and APFA over the TWA issue--and,remember pretty much all the majors except Delta are ALPA and AFA which have a DOH merger policy--they may not even get good ole union solidarity to stand in the way. (Don't try to pick nits with "it wasn't a merger. It was a purchase." The DOH policy for AFL-CIO affiliated unions applies regardless of the business transaction when two unionized work forces are merged.)

You forget the TWU is AFL-CIO, and I think that most of the unions in this industry realize that union busting, even when done by other unions, like at NWA, doesnt pay off for their members in the long run.

 

[The Goose]

I really do not think that AA would engage in this behavior.

You, sir, need to be drug tested - or, at least, share.

 

[eolesen]

Point of order... Ryan moved its HDQ from ICT to Rockford, IL about three or four years ago.

Part of that move may have been to have a better recruiting pool -- RFD is about 45-60 minutes from the west and northwest suburbs of Chicago.

Yea and what makes you think the housewives out of Wichita who fly part time are willing to leave their families and move to a major city and work full time at rates that wouldnt even pay the rent?

While Chicago might not be considered a major city to people who have never lived outside NYC or Long Island, trust me... I'm living about halfway between RFD and ORD, and the cost of living and taxes in Illinois ain't cheap.

 

[FA Mikey]

I wouldn't be surprised if the other major airlines might be willing to help out AA if there is a strike. Wth the bad feeling between the other airlines' unions toward APA and APFA over the TWA issue--and,remember pretty much all the majors except Delta are ALPA and AFA which have a DOH merger policy--they may not even get good ole union solidarity to stand in the way. (Don't try to pick nits with "it wasn't a merger. It was a purchase." The DOH policy for AFL-CIO affiliated unions applies regardless of the business transaction when two unionized work forces are merged.)

Why would another money losing airline be willing to help AA during a strike? It would be in their intrest to let it rot away. Its interesting I have never heard of an AFL CIO union merger policy. I know some other unions who do not merge employees. Should AA have done it the SWA way? Buy another carrier, offer each employee and interview and then give them date of acquisition as there new DOH. Then just dissolve the other company away.

 

[nbmcg01]

Why would another money losing airline be willing to help AA during a strike? It would be in their intrest to let it rot away. Its interesting I have never heard of an AFL CIO union merger policy. I know some other unions who do not merge employees. Should AA have done it the SWA way? Buy another carrier, offer each employee and interview and then give them date of acquisition as there new DOH. Then just dissolve the other company away.

I think Jim was referring to something comparable to the old mutual aid pact.
The AFA is a member of the AFL-CIO
The IAM, Teamsters, TWU are members of the AFL-CIO
AA chose to acknowledge the contribution of the former TWA employees. They acknowledged that we were able to make money for the company from day one. The APFA seemed to "forget" that we were bringing more that $2,000,000 a year in dues. Any debt acquired was an AA issue not an APFA issue. The debt and how the acquisition was planned over a long period of time and was not an over night decision. Obviously, someone, somewhere saw something they thought would be of benefit.

TWO GREAT AIRLINES-ONE GREAT FUTURE

 

[tech2101]

The IAM, Teamsters, TWU are members of the AFL-CIO

The Teamsters have not been a member of the AFL-CIO since 2005.

Link

They left and made their own coalition:

Change to Win

 

[nbmcg01]

The Teamsters have not been a member of the AFL-CIO since 2005.

Link

They left and made their own coalition:

Change to Win

You are correct..
The AFL-CIO does not set merger policy. That is up to the individual union. I think anyone would be hard pressed to find a union that staples (other than the APFA) in an acquisition.

 

[kirkpatrick]

Its interesting I have never heard of an AFL CIO union merger policy.

Mikey, I don't know the details, but it was the fact that TWU is part of the AFL-CIO that gave the TWA mechanics and ramp an arbitrated deal.

MK

 

[FA Mikey]

I agree, they did. My point was Jim assertion that there is a AFL CIO union merger policy, which there is not.